Hey everyone! I'm the new Editor in Chief of Utah Women in Business Magazine! I'm excited to share the Winter 2009 issue coming out later this December. We will be featuring women like Debbie Hooge, who owns Tuscany Homes and is the only woman owner of a homebuilder company in Utah; Heidi Hanseen Deroest who is a published author of "Holy Stable...Celebrate the Miracle" while raising eight children at home; and Traci Wennerholm who began the DiabeticParents website to provide a central location on the web for parents with diabetes.
If you're interested in advertising in the magazine, it's not too late to get into this issue that comes out before Christmas. Please visit our new website at uwinb.com for more information! If you'd like to call for more information, contact our publisher, Grace, at 801.995.5127.
Feel free to contact me with story ideas, subscriptions or any suggestions at Britnee@uwinb.com
Britnee Nguyen
Editor in Chief
Utah Women in Business Magazine
Wednesday, December 2, 2009
Wednesday, August 19, 2009
Thursday, July 23, 2009
For Every Body outlet store
Location : Geneva Road in Lindon - From State Street, turn on 700 (next to Walmart), left on Geneva Road, and the store is facing Geneva Road on the left. Big signs out front say "For Every Body" and "For Every Scrapbook"
Becky Anderson Interview
Here are some additional comments from Becky Anderson that may not have been included in the Summer issue. If you have any questions, post them here and we'll do our best to get the answers! Becky is the owner and founder of For Every Body, For Every Home and I Think Pink.org
Tell us about your organization. How and when it was formed? What was your business concept? How has it evolved?
My business started in 1995 as a single retail bath and body shop in University Mall. I eventually launched my own line of bath and body products nationally in 1997. The products were all natural, no mineral oil, alcohol or lanolin. We were green before green was cool. We added a line of candles to the bath products in 1999 that were soy. Again, all natural and green and clean burning before green became so important. Over time we closed the mall stores and focused on shipping wholesale to the big box retailers and the mom and pop independent shops. We are now one of the largest privately held candle manufactures in the USA.
We have also launched our new spin off division For Every Home in the past year. www.foreveryhome.net
Maybe 25%.
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men?
I think women are great multi taskers because of juggling mother career roles. Women are also very creative thinkers I have found over the years.
What do you see as the benefit of having more women in these positions?
For me I really like having women because our target market for our products is primarily women. Women know what they want to buy so it is nice to have women help create the products.
What are some business tips you can share with our readers?
Don’t be afraid to pick up the phone. You already have the no, try going for the yes. What is the worst thing that can happen? Nothing, so pick up the phone.
I would also say be a forward thinker, always work on things on your business that will move it forward for the long term. Don’t waste your time on minutia, work on the important big stuff. I am truly a Covey fan.
Where are you from? What brought you to Utah? Family?
Born and raised here. I am married with four grown daughters.
What's your education?
Any previous positions leading to this? I attended BYU. I worked at a bank and a law office before I started the business. Between my education and my work experience it made me pretty well rounded in the financial, legal and business environment.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
DSA, DSWA.
How did you get to this point in your career?
A lot of hard work, long hours, travel and sleep deprivation. It hasn’t been an easy road but it has sure been a fun ride.
How would you describe your leadership style?
I like to make assignments and let my team deliver the results, I don’t micro manage. However, I am not afraid to jump in at every level if the job isn’t being done to get our goals accomplished.
What do you want people to know about you?
That I am person who cares puts family and employees first. At least I want to be remembered for that. You don’t get the moments back so I have tried not to miss them and encouraged employees to do the same.
What did you give up for your career?
I have given up a lot of sleep over the years. I have sat on a lot of planes and in a lot of meetings. I have really tried to juggle it all but you do miss some stuff. I have always just tried to make sure my kids didn’t the short end of the stick first, I would sacrifice myself first. I have sat on many a redeye plane to not miss something for one of my kids. I have also stepped away from meetings to take their calls and missed meetings if one of the kids needed me.
What have you gained from being a business woman?
An ability to help other and give back. I have been very blessed with the success and growth of my business. I can now look at 200 families and know we are helping them financially.
What would you do differently? What would you recommend every woman do?
I don’t have a lot of regrets. I have learned a lot of lessons from mistakes. I call challenges opportunities to grow and nothing more. I would recommend women don’t give up on their dreams. You can be, do and have it all.
Personal Insights
What do you think is necessary for success?Passion and hard work and nothing more.
How does success in the home compare to success in business?
They are both great. Because of the success in the business my children have been able to travel the world with me.
What are lessons you have learned that every woman should know?
It’s the fast that eat the slow, not the big that eat the small. Also, the crocodile that sleeps becomes a handbag.
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance?
My family is by far my first priority. I try to always schedule time to be with them no matter how crazy it is at the office. We like going to lunch and concerts together. I always try to take care of them and myself. Taking time to eat right and exercise is important. It is hard to give to everyone else if you aren’t taking care of yourself.
How do you relax/renew yourself?
Reading, chick flicks and spending time with family.
Why did you get into this business? Does it take a certain type of “personality”?
It just turned into what it is over the years by always moving in a forward direct and going where the market was going, not where it was. I think it takes a persistent, passionate and hard working individual to stay in a business this fast moving.
Do you have any pet peeves? Any favorite causes?
Pet peeves…..time vampires. Tell me what time it is not how the clock works. Favorite causes our foundation I Think Pink. We give back through the foundation and supporting women’s issues and breast cancer.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message?
Every day is a gift, every meal is a banquet and every challenge is an opportunity.
Additional transcript ----
K: Well the first thing is something you know I think in my last email to you; erin Hadfield, she had written this whole thing and I really don’t want to ignore her first impression; she said, she was recommending you for an interview and said “In brief…..she has raised 9 children….Becky could educate and encourage women about keeping an optimistic outlook…” She is your fan, she is your fan.
B: She got it a little bit twisted though; I started the first retail store for a place for my daughters to work, we started in a retail store and what happened after the retial store started taking off I realized that there was a real need for bath & body products in our area because it started with bath & body
K: So was that your store, Bath & Body?
B: It was “For Every Body” and it was in University Mall and it was bath & body so the name “For Every Body” and what happened is the store started really taking off so I developed a private label brand and that’s where we started in the kitchen. So there was the store before the kitchen. And I developed the private label line and then it just really took off and we opened a couple more stores and rolled it out nationally in 1998 and then added candles in 2000 and now candles have taken over and we kept the name “For Every Body” but we’re 98% candles and 2% bath and body now. We just kept the name because we’re 14 years old and that’s the name that we’re known by.
K: Right, that’s worth a lot. So what made you start a bath & body store; what gave you the background an experience to start something like that?
B: I started it because, the part about my daughter, I came home; we lived on one of the largest farms here in the valley; my husband was an apple farmer and I came home one day and my 12 year old daughter was on a tractor; and I’m like that’s ok for the boys but. My husband wanted our kids to learn the value of the dollar and hard work so I said, you know what, I’m gonna do something that the girls can do, and my vision for it was a place for my daughters to work and their friends so it would be a fun place for them. I really had no retail experience. I just went up there and on pure self confidence signed a lease and came up with the idea and I bought all the products that I sold in the store wholesale from the world trade centers and it was after the business started doing well that I realized, wow, that I could do a whole lot more with this. And that’s when I started doing the private label and my own brand. And that’s when it really took off.
K: So how did you develop your own product?
B: Well, I had enough chemistry in college just to be a little bit dangerous. Then as I got further into it I hired a cosmetic chemist out of San Francisco and I spent a couple of weeks at his lab working . And our claim to fame was everything was all natural back before natural was the cool thing to do. So if you go to Bath & Body Works or Victoria’s Secret or any of those, they’re so full of alcohol that the alcohol, you know, you put it on your hands and the alcohol dries your hands so you continually put it back on. So we didn’t have mineral oil, alcohol, or lanolin or anything synthetic in our bath & body and that was 14 years ago back before that was cool. And same thing with our candles, we do soy based candles back before green was cool. So we’ve been green for 14 years.
K: So what are soy based candles? What’s good about them?
B: It’s cleaner burning and doesn’t put out the soot that the parafin does.
K: So it doesn’t put out the black smoke?
B: Yeah
K: So did that work, did your daughters work there and their friends work there?
B: Uh huh, they’ve all over time worked there; I’ve always wanted them to pursue their own dreams so I didn’t want to force them to work there but when they were younger they have and, interestingly enough, they’re all at one point or another now working here. They’re all grown but do different things and they’ve come and gone between school and stuff like that.
K: You’ve got all of these different organizations-that was the main thing I wanted to talk to you about because you’ve covered so much in writing, unless there are other things that you’ve thought about since then. The new business, For Every Home – what is that?
B: We launched For Every Home in March of 2008. March 1 of 2008 was the official launch; we did a soft launch in 2007; the reason we did it; just because this business has been so successful , we’re now the largest privately held candle company in the country; and so it’s just given me so much freedom and flexibility with kids and grandkids and work time that I wanted to give that opportunity to other women. So it’s your basic party plan model kind of like Avon or Mary Kay and I can give you our catalog and a magazine we’ve been featured in that explains it all but yeah, so that business has just exploded; we expect it to be within 3 years the size For Every Body is in 14; so I’m really working two full time jobs somewhat.
K: And you still have time for your kids and grandkids? You look great, it must be working for you.
B: I’m not kidding, I told you we were in Puerto Rico and I got a fever of 103 and barely made it home on the flight and I went to the doctor and they thought it was
K: The swine flu or something?
B: Well, they checked me for all that; they checked me for everything so he just gave me antibiotics and said you probably picked up travelers bug but two days later, I still had a fever of 103 and it had been 5 days by this point. So I was just so sick, my husband took me to the ER and they ended up admitting me and I spent almost a week in the hospital.
K: Oh wow
B: Yeah, I spent a week in the hospital and I was in quarantine; they did a spinal tap, they did MRIs on everything; they thought it was bacterial meningitis but then when the culture came back, it wasn’t but by that point I had had the fever for so long I developed pneumonia and then I got an infection around my heart; but you know, I’ve gone at such a break neck pace for the last two years, since we launched the For Every Home business; doing two full time jobs and then we had a crummy economy so I’m living on airplanes; so I think it’s just absolute exhaustion
K: So what are you doing on the airplanes? Marketing basically or?
B: We have, because we are the largest privately held candle company in the country, we sell, the For Every Body side, we sell to all the big box stores, Walgreens & Kohls & Home Depot & Lowes & JoAnnes-all of those have corporate offices all over the country and I have to see those buyers every month
K: Really? Wow.
B: Yeah, yeah
K: I wouldn’t have imagined that; I would have imagined that once you have the relationship in place that
B: No, it’s continually and especially I’ve said that in a down economy we’ve had to work twice as hard just to stay the same because it becomes more competitive; you get 50% of your competitors going out of business but the ones that are hanging on are going to get more aggressive; and so we’ve had to work twice as hard and travel twice as much; before I went into the hospital, I had been home three weekends since Christmas; that’s how much we have travelled to keep the business going so. It’s just exhausting. So if that illness has taught me anything – I’m stepping back and slowing down, yeah
K: That’s interesting. I would imagine even the big box retailers are cutting back on what they’re ordering
B: Oh yeah, because the big boxes are one of the first to be hurt in a down economy and you’ve got to flatter the roots to make money
K: And you do that personally instead of hiring
B: Well, I’ve got a team but the issue is on those big ones, those relationships, I’m the one that started them so I’m the one they want to see and that makes the biggest impression. So yeah, I’ve hired a team around me and I’m starting to give more and more of that stuff to that team but this illness has made me really realize that I have to do that; I’ve got to take care of myself; I mean I’m only 49; I’ve got to take care of myself so I can be here when I’m 79, you know?
K: I’m going to 48 in a couple of months, I know what you mean
B: I know, where do the years go?
K: Absolutely. What about the I Think Pink.org; I usually wait until right before the interview to re-read everything and look at the websites because otherwise it gets muddled in my mind, but you have a lot of things out there. So I didn’t really get to read a lot about the I Think Pink
B: The way I Think Pink happened is that in 1998, I had an employee who, her aunt died of breast cancer and I lost a cousin at 33 to breast cancer so we decided we wanted to do something to make awareness to that cause. So we developed the Hope for a Cure candle; so it kind of started with the Hope for a Cure candle and we give that candle to all the hospitals in October and they give it to the women that get mammograms for breast cancer awareness month; so the women get the candle and you know, it just reminds them while it burns all year long, don’t forget to get the next mammogram. So that’s kind of all it was for a really long time and then I went down to get my own mammogram and I had a spot that was kind of scary and they called me back to do an ultrasound; and while I was sitting there in that panic mode when you don’t know what it is, I saw a woman that was younger then me that was completely bald from chemotherapy in that hospital gown and her husband was pushing her in, you know, for some tests and it just broke my heart; it absolutely broke my heart; and then my test came back clear and I was fine but I came back and told the sales & marketing team, I’m like, that just literally broke my heart, we need to do more. So we started the I Think Pink foundation. And we started doing the I Think Pink event where we wanted to do the I Think Pink.org website, and we collect stories; we want to put a name and a face to breast cancer, so we started collecting these stories and we awarded $10,000 to the person that we picked; we wanted to follow her ; so we followed her for a yea r but then what happened in the process of reading all those stories, we realized there’s so much more than just breast cancer, there’s the people that get left behind and there’s the survivors; so then we did the Living Home; any way we have a survivor candle and a surviving hope and living hope, those that live ; so we wanted to honor those that are left behind, those that survive as well as the person fighting. So we have sent a couple of women on cruises that have survived, and then the Living Hope, we are taking stories and we will award a scholarship to someone who has lost their mother to breast cancer; so the Think Pink Foundation puts on this event puts on this event every year and will honor those three people; it’s kind of our way of giving back; we just want to give back and so all proceeds from that candle go into this organization and then we’ve also got sponsors to help with it. No, we don’t make a penny off of any of it; it’s our way of giving back and just ; because as we started reading these stories, we got over 100 stories, and I’ll bet 80% of them are women under 35 and they tell you don’t even do a mammogram until you’re 40 so we’re like, no, you need to do your monthly exam and you need to not let this go because you’re under 40. You know, I have all these daughters so it’s like, this cause is near and dear to me. But yeah, it’s a big part of who we are.
K: When you’re young, you tend to put off those regular exams of any kind
B: Yeah, absolutely (discussed Jill Grammer’s experience)
K: Yeah I know Jill…her story’s very impressive
Contact information: For Every Home, I Think Pink.Org
K: You don’t really do marketing as such, like just locally, your marketing is the big retailers.
B: We still have a retail store here. So we do some marketing locally but really we’re kind of Utah’s hidden secret because we are such a big supplier to the big boxes
K: I saw that on the website that it said, you know, new retails or however that was phrased on there and then you have For Every Scrapbook as well? That was interesting, I didn’t know about that. So where is your retail store? Is it somewhere in this complex right here?
B: Right on Geneva Road, facing, you can go in there and see everything that we have. We’ve got home décor and candles and we have scrapbooking because my daughters all love scrapbooking so we added that, just – that’s pretty much so we can do it as a hobby, the scrapbooking won’t go any further than the little retail store here. Our business is candles and home décor and bath and body so
K: Is there anything that you just want to share that wasn’t covered?
B: No, nothing that I can think of. I’ll go grab a magazine and a catalog for you.
Tell us about your organization. How and when it was formed? What was your business concept? How has it evolved?
My business started in 1995 as a single retail bath and body shop in University Mall. I eventually launched my own line of bath and body products nationally in 1997. The products were all natural, no mineral oil, alcohol or lanolin. We were green before green was cool. We added a line of candles to the bath products in 1999 that were soy. Again, all natural and green and clean burning before green became so important. Over time we closed the mall stores and focused on shipping wholesale to the big box retailers and the mom and pop independent shops. We are now one of the largest privately held candle manufactures in the USA.
We have also launched our new spin off division For Every Home in the past year. www.foreveryhome.net
Women in Business Insights
How many women are in executive positions in your company?
Maybe 25%.
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men?
I think women are great multi taskers because of juggling mother career roles. Women are also very creative thinkers I have found over the years.
What do you see as the benefit of having more women in these positions?
For me I really like having women because our target market for our products is primarily women. Women know what they want to buy so it is nice to have women help create the products.
What are some business tips you can share with our readers?
Don’t be afraid to pick up the phone. You already have the no, try going for the yes. What is the worst thing that can happen? Nothing, so pick up the phone.
I would also say be a forward thinker, always work on things on your business that will move it forward for the long term. Don’t waste your time on minutia, work on the important big stuff. I am truly a Covey fan.
Personal Background
Where are you from? What brought you to Utah? Family?
Born and raised here. I am married with four grown daughters.
What's your education?
Any previous positions leading to this? I attended BYU. I worked at a bank and a law office before I started the business. Between my education and my work experience it made me pretty well rounded in the financial, legal and business environment.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
DSA, DSWA.
How did you get to this point in your career?
A lot of hard work, long hours, travel and sleep deprivation. It hasn’t been an easy road but it has sure been a fun ride.
How would you describe your leadership style?
I like to make assignments and let my team deliver the results, I don’t micro manage. However, I am not afraid to jump in at every level if the job isn’t being done to get our goals accomplished.
What do you want people to know about you?
That I am person who cares puts family and employees first. At least I want to be remembered for that. You don’t get the moments back so I have tried not to miss them and encouraged employees to do the same.
What did you give up for your career?
I have given up a lot of sleep over the years. I have sat on a lot of planes and in a lot of meetings. I have really tried to juggle it all but you do miss some stuff. I have always just tried to make sure my kids didn’t the short end of the stick first, I would sacrifice myself first. I have sat on many a redeye plane to not miss something for one of my kids. I have also stepped away from meetings to take their calls and missed meetings if one of the kids needed me.
What have you gained from being a business woman?
An ability to help other and give back. I have been very blessed with the success and growth of my business. I can now look at 200 families and know we are helping them financially.
What would you do differently? What would you recommend every woman do?
I don’t have a lot of regrets. I have learned a lot of lessons from mistakes. I call challenges opportunities to grow and nothing more. I would recommend women don’t give up on their dreams. You can be, do and have it all.
Personal Insights
What do you think is necessary for success?
How does success in the home compare to success in business?
They are both great. Because of the success in the business my children have been able to travel the world with me.
What are lessons you have learned that every woman should know?
It’s the fast that eat the slow, not the big that eat the small. Also, the crocodile that sleeps becomes a handbag.
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance?
My family is by far my first priority. I try to always schedule time to be with them no matter how crazy it is at the office. We like going to lunch and concerts together. I always try to take care of them and myself. Taking time to eat right and exercise is important. It is hard to give to everyone else if you aren’t taking care of yourself.
The Last Words
How do you relax/renew yourself?
Reading, chick flicks and spending time with family.
Why did you get into this business? Does it take a certain type of “personality”?
It just turned into what it is over the years by always moving in a forward direct and going where the market was going, not where it was. I think it takes a persistent, passionate and hard working individual to stay in a business this fast moving.
Do you have any pet peeves? Any favorite causes?
Pet peeves…..time vampires. Tell me what time it is not how the clock works. Favorite causes our foundation I Think Pink. We give back through the foundation and supporting women’s issues and breast cancer.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message?
Every day is a gift, every meal is a banquet and every challenge is an opportunity.
Additional transcript ----
K: Well the first thing is something you know I think in my last email to you; erin Hadfield, she had written this whole thing and I really don’t want to ignore her first impression; she said, she was recommending you for an interview and said “In brief…..she has raised 9 children….Becky could educate and encourage women about keeping an optimistic outlook…” She is your fan, she is your fan.
B: She got it a little bit twisted though; I started the first retail store for a place for my daughters to work, we started in a retail store and what happened after the retial store started taking off I realized that there was a real need for bath & body products in our area because it started with bath & body
K: So was that your store, Bath & Body?
B: It was “For Every Body” and it was in University Mall and it was bath & body so the name “For Every Body” and what happened is the store started really taking off so I developed a private label brand and that’s where we started in the kitchen. So there was the store before the kitchen. And I developed the private label line and then it just really took off and we opened a couple more stores and rolled it out nationally in 1998 and then added candles in 2000 and now candles have taken over and we kept the name “For Every Body” but we’re 98% candles and 2% bath and body now. We just kept the name because we’re 14 years old and that’s the name that we’re known by.
K: Right, that’s worth a lot. So what made you start a bath & body store; what gave you the background an experience to start something like that?
B: I started it because, the part about my daughter, I came home; we lived on one of the largest farms here in the valley; my husband was an apple farmer and I came home one day and my 12 year old daughter was on a tractor; and I’m like that’s ok for the boys but. My husband wanted our kids to learn the value of the dollar and hard work so I said, you know what, I’m gonna do something that the girls can do, and my vision for it was a place for my daughters to work and their friends so it would be a fun place for them. I really had no retail experience. I just went up there and on pure self confidence signed a lease and came up with the idea and I bought all the products that I sold in the store wholesale from the world trade centers and it was after the business started doing well that I realized, wow, that I could do a whole lot more with this. And that’s when I started doing the private label and my own brand. And that’s when it really took off.
K: So how did you develop your own product?
B: Well, I had enough chemistry in college just to be a little bit dangerous. Then as I got further into it I hired a cosmetic chemist out of San Francisco and I spent a couple of weeks at his lab working . And our claim to fame was everything was all natural back before natural was the cool thing to do. So if you go to Bath & Body Works or Victoria’s Secret or any of those, they’re so full of alcohol that the alcohol, you know, you put it on your hands and the alcohol dries your hands so you continually put it back on. So we didn’t have mineral oil, alcohol, or lanolin or anything synthetic in our bath & body and that was 14 years ago back before that was cool. And same thing with our candles, we do soy based candles back before green was cool. So we’ve been green for 14 years.
K: So what are soy based candles? What’s good about them?
B: It’s cleaner burning and doesn’t put out the soot that the parafin does.
K: So it doesn’t put out the black smoke?
B: Yeah
K: So did that work, did your daughters work there and their friends work there?
B: Uh huh, they’ve all over time worked there; I’ve always wanted them to pursue their own dreams so I didn’t want to force them to work there but when they were younger they have and, interestingly enough, they’re all at one point or another now working here. They’re all grown but do different things and they’ve come and gone between school and stuff like that.
K: You’ve got all of these different organizations-that was the main thing I wanted to talk to you about because you’ve covered so much in writing, unless there are other things that you’ve thought about since then. The new business, For Every Home – what is that?
B: We launched For Every Home in March of 2008. March 1 of 2008 was the official launch; we did a soft launch in 2007; the reason we did it; just because this business has been so successful , we’re now the largest privately held candle company in the country; and so it’s just given me so much freedom and flexibility with kids and grandkids and work time that I wanted to give that opportunity to other women. So it’s your basic party plan model kind of like Avon or Mary Kay and I can give you our catalog and a magazine we’ve been featured in that explains it all but yeah, so that business has just exploded; we expect it to be within 3 years the size For Every Body is in 14; so I’m really working two full time jobs somewhat.
K: And you still have time for your kids and grandkids? You look great, it must be working for you.
B: I’m not kidding, I told you we were in Puerto Rico and I got a fever of 103 and barely made it home on the flight and I went to the doctor and they thought it was
K: The swine flu or something?
B: Well, they checked me for all that; they checked me for everything so he just gave me antibiotics and said you probably picked up travelers bug but two days later, I still had a fever of 103 and it had been 5 days by this point. So I was just so sick, my husband took me to the ER and they ended up admitting me and I spent almost a week in the hospital.
K: Oh wow
B: Yeah, I spent a week in the hospital and I was in quarantine; they did a spinal tap, they did MRIs on everything; they thought it was bacterial meningitis but then when the culture came back, it wasn’t but by that point I had had the fever for so long I developed pneumonia and then I got an infection around my heart; but you know, I’ve gone at such a break neck pace for the last two years, since we launched the For Every Home business; doing two full time jobs and then we had a crummy economy so I’m living on airplanes; so I think it’s just absolute exhaustion
K: So what are you doing on the airplanes? Marketing basically or?
B: We have, because we are the largest privately held candle company in the country, we sell, the For Every Body side, we sell to all the big box stores, Walgreens & Kohls & Home Depot & Lowes & JoAnnes-all of those have corporate offices all over the country and I have to see those buyers every month
K: Really? Wow.
B: Yeah, yeah
K: I wouldn’t have imagined that; I would have imagined that once you have the relationship in place that
B: No, it’s continually and especially I’ve said that in a down economy we’ve had to work twice as hard just to stay the same because it becomes more competitive; you get 50% of your competitors going out of business but the ones that are hanging on are going to get more aggressive; and so we’ve had to work twice as hard and travel twice as much; before I went into the hospital, I had been home three weekends since Christmas; that’s how much we have travelled to keep the business going so. It’s just exhausting. So if that illness has taught me anything – I’m stepping back and slowing down, yeah
K: That’s interesting. I would imagine even the big box retailers are cutting back on what they’re ordering
B: Oh yeah, because the big boxes are one of the first to be hurt in a down economy and you’ve got to flatter the roots to make money
K: And you do that personally instead of hiring
B: Well, I’ve got a team but the issue is on those big ones, those relationships, I’m the one that started them so I’m the one they want to see and that makes the biggest impression. So yeah, I’ve hired a team around me and I’m starting to give more and more of that stuff to that team but this illness has made me really realize that I have to do that; I’ve got to take care of myself; I mean I’m only 49; I’ve got to take care of myself so I can be here when I’m 79, you know?
K: I’m going to 48 in a couple of months, I know what you mean
B: I know, where do the years go?
K: Absolutely. What about the I Think Pink.org; I usually wait until right before the interview to re-read everything and look at the websites because otherwise it gets muddled in my mind, but you have a lot of things out there. So I didn’t really get to read a lot about the I Think Pink
B: The way I Think Pink happened is that in 1998, I had an employee who, her aunt died of breast cancer and I lost a cousin at 33 to breast cancer so we decided we wanted to do something to make awareness to that cause. So we developed the Hope for a Cure candle; so it kind of started with the Hope for a Cure candle and we give that candle to all the hospitals in October and they give it to the women that get mammograms for breast cancer awareness month; so the women get the candle and you know, it just reminds them while it burns all year long, don’t forget to get the next mammogram. So that’s kind of all it was for a really long time and then I went down to get my own mammogram and I had a spot that was kind of scary and they called me back to do an ultrasound; and while I was sitting there in that panic mode when you don’t know what it is, I saw a woman that was younger then me that was completely bald from chemotherapy in that hospital gown and her husband was pushing her in, you know, for some tests and it just broke my heart; it absolutely broke my heart; and then my test came back clear and I was fine but I came back and told the sales & marketing team, I’m like, that just literally broke my heart, we need to do more. So we started the I Think Pink foundation. And we started doing the I Think Pink event where we wanted to do the I Think Pink.org website, and we collect stories; we want to put a name and a face to breast cancer, so we started collecting these stories and we awarded $10,000 to the person that we picked; we wanted to follow her ; so we followed her for a yea r but then what happened in the process of reading all those stories, we realized there’s so much more than just breast cancer, there’s the people that get left behind and there’s the survivors; so then we did the Living Home; any way we have a survivor candle and a surviving hope and living hope, those that live ; so we wanted to honor those that are left behind, those that survive as well as the person fighting. So we have sent a couple of women on cruises that have survived, and then the Living Hope, we are taking stories and we will award a scholarship to someone who has lost their mother to breast cancer; so the Think Pink Foundation puts on this event puts on this event every year and will honor those three people; it’s kind of our way of giving back; we just want to give back and so all proceeds from that candle go into this organization and then we’ve also got sponsors to help with it. No, we don’t make a penny off of any of it; it’s our way of giving back and just ; because as we started reading these stories, we got over 100 stories, and I’ll bet 80% of them are women under 35 and they tell you don’t even do a mammogram until you’re 40 so we’re like, no, you need to do your monthly exam and you need to not let this go because you’re under 40. You know, I have all these daughters so it’s like, this cause is near and dear to me. But yeah, it’s a big part of who we are.
K: When you’re young, you tend to put off those regular exams of any kind
B: Yeah, absolutely (discussed Jill Grammer’s experience)
K: Yeah I know Jill…her story’s very impressive
Contact information: For Every Home, I Think Pink.Org
K: You don’t really do marketing as such, like just locally, your marketing is the big retailers.
B: We still have a retail store here. So we do some marketing locally but really we’re kind of Utah’s hidden secret because we are such a big supplier to the big boxes
K: I saw that on the website that it said, you know, new retails or however that was phrased on there and then you have For Every Scrapbook as well? That was interesting, I didn’t know about that. So where is your retail store? Is it somewhere in this complex right here?
B: Right on Geneva Road, facing, you can go in there and see everything that we have. We’ve got home décor and candles and we have scrapbooking because my daughters all love scrapbooking so we added that, just – that’s pretty much so we can do it as a hobby, the scrapbooking won’t go any further than the little retail store here. Our business is candles and home décor and bath and body so
K: Is there anything that you just want to share that wasn’t covered?
B: No, nothing that I can think of. I’ll go grab a magazine and a catalog for you.
Liz Hitch Interview!
Here are additional comments from Liz (some may have been included in the article too) If you have any questions, post them here! We'll do our best to help get the answers you need.
1 –Liz is the Interim President of UVU
Note: As of June 1, 2009, I am no longer Interim President. I returned to the position into which I was originally hired: Vice President for Academic Affairs.
Tell us about the transformation of UVSC into UVU –
How long have you been with UVSC? What was your role there?
I began at UVU on July 1, 2007, as Vice President for Academic Affairs. I served in that role until I became Interim President on August 18, 2008. On June 1, 2009, I returned to being Vice President for Academic Affairs.
What led to your becoming Interim President?
Bill Sederburg, President at UVU, left to become the Utah Commissioner of Higher Education and the Board of Regents asked me to serve as Interim President.
How was the change in curriculum achieved?
I’m not sure I understand the question. A “change in curriculum?” UVU has been building four-year degrees over the past several years and now has an array of over 60 baccalaureate degrees. Or maybe you meant the change from VPAA to Interim President?
What other major tasks were involved in the transition? Again, I’m not sure which transition you have in mind…my transition to the role of President or the transition of UVSC to UVU? I think you mean the transition to UVU..and there were a good many tasks involved in the transition to university status over a number of years. If that is the transition you have in mind, I can provide additional information.
How involved were you in that change/transition? I was involved primarily in the discussion of making the plans respond to student needs for programs at the university level.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
Yes. I belong to Phi Kappa Phi, an academic honorary organization. I am a member of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities Chief Academic Officer group.
How did you get to this point in your career?
Education? Previous positions leading to this?
I earned and Bachelor’s and Master’s degree from Michigan State University in Family Ecology and a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from The University of Michigan. I have been in higher education as a student or employee all of my working life. I spent 10 years at The University of Michigan working as an instructional designer in the health sciences (dentistry, nursing and medicine) while working on my Ph.D. After earning my degree, I spent 15 years at Central Michigan University as a faculty member and also as an administrator. When I left Central, I was the Director of Teacher Education. My next stop was at Eastern Illinois University, where I was Dean of the College of Education, Health and Human Services for seven years. I moved on to the University of Wisconsin – La Crosse, where I spent five years as the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs (and also 8 months as Interim Chancellor). I came to UVSC (now UVU) as Vice President for Academic Affairs.
How would you describe your leadership style?
I function best as a collaborative and inclusive leader. I think two (and sometimes three or more!) heads are better than one.
How many women are in executive positions?
There are two women in the Executive Division who are in executive positions: Linda Makin, Executive Director of Planning and Budget, and me. There are many other women in leadership positions at UVU, but they are not within the Executive Division (i.e., report directly to the President).
Insights about women executives in predominantly male dominated companies -
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men?
What do you see as the benefit of having more women in these positions?
Women have a tendency to work effectively in a group setting; seeking input from many in the organization. Having a variety of perspectives in an organization is a real plus; so having both men and women (and people from many diverse backgrounds and perspectives) can really strengthen an organization.
Can you share some suggestions for marketing/sales strategies (or any other business tips) with our readers?
At UVU, we have a model that describes the outcomes we wish for our students and our employees. The model calls for people to act with integrity, be professionally competent, and to commit to being stewards of the community(ies) in which they live. I think those are strong foundations for any business or organization.
2—Personal background
Where are you from? What brought you here? Family? (Marital status, children, etc)
I grew up in the Midwest (Ohio), in a family with my mom and dad and three sisters. I have been married to my husband Keith, for 38 years this September and we have two daughters who both live in the Salt Lake City area (which is why the job at UVU was so attractive!). Our daughter Mimi is married to Cory Sinclair and they have a soon-to-be-4-year-old, Adam. Mimi is a personal fitness trainer at the Jewish Community Center and Cory works for Parsons, Behle, Latimer. Our daughter Greer will be married this August to Andrew Branaum. They both work for backcountry.com.
What do you want people to know about you? How would you describe yourself? I am an open and friendly person, which made it fun to be the Interim President at UVU. I enjoy the Utah lifestyle, including hiking, camping and fly fishing in the Uintahs and throughout Utah, cycling (road…not mountain biking), and have recently tried my first triathlon.
What do you give up (for your career) in terms of social life? Family life? I try not to “give up” anything, but to balance my life so that my highest priorities for my job AND my family life can be reached.
What do you gain?
What would you do differently? What would you recommend every woman do? I am a big proponent of balancing “spirit, mind and body” and would recommend that to everyone…man or woman.
3 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success? See comment above…a good balance in your life and attention to your spiritual, mental and physical needs.
How does success in the home compare to success in business? I’m not sure they are different if you use the balance technique noted above.
Lesson (s) you have learned that every woman should know
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance?
How do you relax/renew? I mentioned above some of my interests: enjoy the outdoors; cycle, swim, run; read a good book; occasionally go some new or exotic place; paint or do other creative work.
Why did you get into this business? Does it take a certain type of “personality”? I think you have to really like learning and be committed to helping others learn and reach their goals to be in higher education.
Do you have any pet peeves? I get annoyed by the few drivers who do not think the laws regarding cyclists need to be followed and who endanger lives to make the point that they think a road should ONLY be used by a car. Any favorite causes? There are a number of programs at UVU that are just spectacular and can use the support of donors. I choose a few each year to support with my own donations. This year, the Culinary Arts program and the Capitol Reef Field Station were my choices.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message? “An educated mind is one that can examine an idea without accepting it.”
1 –Liz is the Interim President of UVU
Note: As of June 1, 2009, I am no longer Interim President. I returned to the position into which I was originally hired: Vice President for Academic Affairs.
Tell us about the transformation of UVSC into UVU –
How long have you been with UVSC? What was your role there?
I began at UVU on July 1, 2007, as Vice President for Academic Affairs. I served in that role until I became Interim President on August 18, 2008. On June 1, 2009, I returned to being Vice President for Academic Affairs.
What led to your becoming Interim President?
Bill Sederburg, President at UVU, left to become the Utah Commissioner of Higher Education and the Board of Regents asked me to serve as Interim President.
How was the change in curriculum achieved?
I’m not sure I understand the question. A “change in curriculum?” UVU has been building four-year degrees over the past several years and now has an array of over 60 baccalaureate degrees. Or maybe you meant the change from VPAA to Interim President?
What other major tasks were involved in the transition? Again, I’m not sure which transition you have in mind…my transition to the role of President or the transition of UVSC to UVU? I think you mean the transition to UVU..and there were a good many tasks involved in the transition to university status over a number of years. If that is the transition you have in mind, I can provide additional information.
How involved were you in that change/transition? I was involved primarily in the discussion of making the plans respond to student needs for programs at the university level.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
Yes. I belong to Phi Kappa Phi, an academic honorary organization. I am a member of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities Chief Academic Officer group.
How did you get to this point in your career?
Education? Previous positions leading to this?
I earned and Bachelor’s and Master’s degree from Michigan State University in Family Ecology and a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from The University of Michigan. I have been in higher education as a student or employee all of my working life. I spent 10 years at The University of Michigan working as an instructional designer in the health sciences (dentistry, nursing and medicine) while working on my Ph.D. After earning my degree, I spent 15 years at Central Michigan University as a faculty member and also as an administrator. When I left Central, I was the Director of Teacher Education. My next stop was at Eastern Illinois University, where I was Dean of the College of Education, Health and Human Services for seven years. I moved on to the University of Wisconsin – La Crosse, where I spent five years as the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs (and also 8 months as Interim Chancellor). I came to UVSC (now UVU) as Vice President for Academic Affairs.
How would you describe your leadership style?
I function best as a collaborative and inclusive leader. I think two (and sometimes three or more!) heads are better than one.
How many women are in executive positions?
There are two women in the Executive Division who are in executive positions: Linda Makin, Executive Director of Planning and Budget, and me. There are many other women in leadership positions at UVU, but they are not within the Executive Division (i.e., report directly to the President).
Insights about women executives in predominantly male dominated companies -
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men?
What do you see as the benefit of having more women in these positions?
Women have a tendency to work effectively in a group setting; seeking input from many in the organization. Having a variety of perspectives in an organization is a real plus; so having both men and women (and people from many diverse backgrounds and perspectives) can really strengthen an organization.
Can you share some suggestions for marketing/sales strategies (or any other business tips) with our readers?
At UVU, we have a model that describes the outcomes we wish for our students and our employees. The model calls for people to act with integrity, be professionally competent, and to commit to being stewards of the community(ies) in which they live. I think those are strong foundations for any business or organization.
2—Personal background
Where are you from? What brought you here? Family? (Marital status, children, etc)
I grew up in the Midwest (Ohio), in a family with my mom and dad and three sisters. I have been married to my husband Keith, for 38 years this September and we have two daughters who both live in the Salt Lake City area (which is why the job at UVU was so attractive!). Our daughter Mimi is married to Cory Sinclair and they have a soon-to-be-4-year-old, Adam. Mimi is a personal fitness trainer at the Jewish Community Center and Cory works for Parsons, Behle, Latimer. Our daughter Greer will be married this August to Andrew Branaum. They both work for backcountry.com.
What do you want people to know about you? How would you describe yourself? I am an open and friendly person, which made it fun to be the Interim President at UVU. I enjoy the Utah lifestyle, including hiking, camping and fly fishing in the Uintahs and throughout Utah, cycling (road…not mountain biking), and have recently tried my first triathlon.
What do you give up (for your career) in terms of social life? Family life? I try not to “give up” anything, but to balance my life so that my highest priorities for my job AND my family life can be reached.
What do you gain?
What would you do differently? What would you recommend every woman do? I am a big proponent of balancing “spirit, mind and body” and would recommend that to everyone…man or woman.
3 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success? See comment above…a good balance in your life and attention to your spiritual, mental and physical needs.
How does success in the home compare to success in business? I’m not sure they are different if you use the balance technique noted above.
Lesson (s) you have learned that every woman should know
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance?
How do you relax/renew? I mentioned above some of my interests: enjoy the outdoors; cycle, swim, run; read a good book; occasionally go some new or exotic place; paint or do other creative work.
Why did you get into this business? Does it take a certain type of “personality”? I think you have to really like learning and be committed to helping others learn and reach their goals to be in higher education.
Do you have any pet peeves? I get annoyed by the few drivers who do not think the laws regarding cyclists need to be followed and who endanger lives to make the point that they think a road should ONLY be used by a car. Any favorite causes? There are a number of programs at UVU that are just spectacular and can use the support of donors. I choose a few each year to support with my own donations. This year, the Culinary Arts program and the Capitol Reef Field Station were my choices.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message? “An educated mind is one that can examine an idea without accepting it.”
Monday, July 20, 2009
Additional Interview Excerpts will post here this week!
Watch for more information about Liz Hitch & Becky Anderson --
Summer Issue 2009 has ARRIVED!
Check your mailboxes for your Summer 2009 issue! You should have received it by Saturday because they were mailed on Thursday. If you didn't get it, send an email and we'll get it right out to you.
This issue has interviews with two fabulous women - Liz Hitch of UVU and Becky Anderson of For Every Body. They've risen to the top of their fields by dedication and hard work but haven't lost sight of the most important things in their lives.
The event calendar took up two pages because of all of the great summer activities going on, so you'll want to hang onto it and use it throughout the summer.
Submit suggestions or questions for our experts here or by email; We want to hear from you!
This issue has interviews with two fabulous women - Liz Hitch of UVU and Becky Anderson of For Every Body. They've risen to the top of their fields by dedication and hard work but haven't lost sight of the most important things in their lives.
The event calendar took up two pages because of all of the great summer activities going on, so you'll want to hang onto it and use it throughout the summer.
Submit suggestions or questions for our experts here or by email; We want to hear from you!
Thursday, May 28, 2009
Here are the pics I promised!
Check out the snapshots from the Women in Business conference last week; there are more I will add later. I ran out of room (silly me, I forgot to resize the pictures for the web before uploading) But check these out in the meantime!
Friday, May 22, 2009
Photos from the conference coming soon.....
Check back in a few days and I should have some of those photos ready from the conference on Thursday. If you find yourself in one, I'd love it if you would identify it for us; if we use that photo in the next issue, we will be able to identify you! Have a wonderful holiday weekend everyone!
Quick Informal Survey Pretty Please!
Hello ladies!
Can you please respond for a quick survey? You can just email me using the form on the right side of the blog page.
Please tell me 1) if you are currently a member of any of our local Chambers of Commerce and 2) if you were aware that there was a Women in Business organization available to you locally (well, before you read this blog that is!)
If you really are in the mood to write, I'd love for you to expand on the subject; i.e., what do you like about your CofC or why haven't you joined; same for the WIB organization (hint: Provo/Orem Chamber & the AF/North Utah County Chambers both sponsor a WIB group)
Thank you for sharing your insights with me! Feel free to post on the blog or privately through email, whichever you prefer.
Can you please respond for a quick survey? You can just email me using the form on the right side of the blog page.
Please tell me 1) if you are currently a member of any of our local Chambers of Commerce and 2) if you were aware that there was a Women in Business organization available to you locally (well, before you read this blog that is!)
If you really are in the mood to write, I'd love for you to expand on the subject; i.e., what do you like about your CofC or why haven't you joined; same for the WIB organization (hint: Provo/Orem Chamber & the AF/North Utah County Chambers both sponsor a WIB group)
Thank you for sharing your insights with me! Feel free to post on the blog or privately through email, whichever you prefer.
WINNER of a FREE AD in our Summer Issue!
We had a drawing for a FREE AD at the Women in Business conference yesterday and the winner is...........................................
Melanie Ashby of Brower Creek-Architectural Artwork. It is an engraving business and we'll be designing an ad for her. Watch for it and if you need that service, be sure to support your fellow Utah County business woman! You can contact her at mel.ashby@browercreek.com
Melanie Ashby of Brower Creek-Architectural Artwork. It is an engraving business and we'll be designing an ad for her. Watch for it and if you need that service, be sure to support your fellow Utah County business woman! You can contact her at mel.ashby@browercreek.com
Women in Busines Conference -- was FABULOUS!
The Women in Business conference that was held yesterday was great - inspirational speakers, friendly vendors with fabulous products and of course, local business women from all over the county. If you missed it this year, watch for it next year -- one way to be sure to be aware of these activities is to join your local chamber - the North Utah County Women in Business Organization sponsored it but all of the Utah County chambers participated and promoted it. We encourage you to join this fabulous organization and reap the benefits they have to offer. Contact Rose Klingonsmith at crenterprises@live.com for information about joining! And watch this blog for upcoming events!
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Women in Business of Utah County Conference!
Join us at the conference this Thursday the 21st of May at the Tahitian Noni building in Provo; the conference lasts from 9am to 1pm and includes a fabulous lunch, great speakers and endless opportunities to socialize and network with fabulous women, just like you!
Women in Business magazine will have a drawing for a free ad in our Summer issue so don't miss out!
Women in Business magazine will have a drawing for a free ad in our Summer issue so don't miss out!
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Website updated!
Go visit our new super cool webpage at www.wbmagazine.org
All of the magazine issues are ready for you to browse or download in PDF format. Come back here and tell me what you think and don't forget to complete the survey while you're there because you could win 2 day passes to Seven Peaks Water Park - a day of FUN IN THE SUN!
All of the magazine issues are ready for you to browse or download in PDF format. Come back here and tell me what you think and don't forget to complete the survey while you're there because you could win 2 day passes to Seven Peaks Water Park - a day of FUN IN THE SUN!
Friday, May 8, 2009
Recipes from Dream Dinners
Personally, I am dying to try the Banana Empanadas; I love banana treats! If you try any of these, tell us how it turned out for you.
Hawaiian Sunrise
Orange Juice
Pineapple Juice
Grenadine Syrup
Maraschino Cherries for garnish
Fill desired glass 1/2 way with orange juice. Add pineapple juice until 3/4 full. Finish with a dash of grenadine. Add garnish and serve immediately.
Avocado & Goat Cheese on Crostini
1 large avocado
2/3 cup fresh goat cheese
zest and juice of 1 lemon
1 T of olive oil
salt, Tabasco
Crostini (recipe follows)
Place avocado, cheese, zest, juice, and oil in a food processor. Pulse until smooth. Add salt and Tabasco to taste. Spoon over each crostini. Garnish with 1/2 cherry tomato and cilantro sprig.
serve at room temperature.
Crostini-
20 slices (1/2 inch thick) day-old baguette
4 T Olive Oil
Preheat oven 350F. Place baguette slices on a baking sheet. Brush with olive oil. Bake until crisp and lightly golden (about 10 min.)
Chocolate Banana Empanadas
4 large ripe bananas
2 T sugar
1 tsp. cinnamon
prepared pie crust
4 oz. semisweet chocolate (broken to chunks)
confectioners sugar (for dusting)
Mash bananas, sugar and cinnamon together in a mixing bowl until creamy, but not completely smooth. Spoon generous tablespoon into center of pastry circles (you need 10 4" circles). Leave 1/2-inch border and stick a piece of chocolate on top. Brush edges with egg wash and fold dough in half to form a semi circle. Seal the edges by crimping with fork. Let chill 30 minutes before baking. Preheat oven to 375F. Place empanadas on buttered baking sheet, brush tops with additional egg wash. Sprinkle confectioners
Hawaiian Sunrise
Orange Juice
Pineapple Juice
Grenadine Syrup
Maraschino Cherries for garnish
Fill desired glass 1/2 way with orange juice. Add pineapple juice until 3/4 full. Finish with a dash of grenadine. Add garnish and serve immediately.
Avocado & Goat Cheese on Crostini
1 large avocado
2/3 cup fresh goat cheese
zest and juice of 1 lemon
1 T of olive oil
salt, Tabasco
Crostini (recipe follows)
Place avocado, cheese, zest, juice, and oil in a food processor. Pulse until smooth. Add salt and Tabasco to taste. Spoon over each crostini. Garnish with 1/2 cherry tomato and cilantro sprig.
serve at room temperature.
Crostini-
20 slices (1/2 inch thick) day-old baguette
4 T Olive Oil
Preheat oven 350F. Place baguette slices on a baking sheet. Brush with olive oil. Bake until crisp and lightly golden (about 10 min.)
Chocolate Banana Empanadas
4 large ripe bananas
2 T sugar
1 tsp. cinnamon
prepared pie crust
4 oz. semisweet chocolate (broken to chunks)
confectioners sugar (for dusting)
Mash bananas, sugar and cinnamon together in a mixing bowl until creamy, but not completely smooth. Spoon generous tablespoon into center of pastry circles (you need 10 4" circles). Leave 1/2-inch border and stick a piece of chocolate on top. Brush edges with egg wash and fold dough in half to form a semi circle. Seal the edges by crimping with fork. Let chill 30 minutes before baking. Preheat oven to 375F. Place empanadas on buttered baking sheet, brush tops with additional egg wash. Sprinkle confectioners
Thursday, May 7, 2009
Welcome to my blog!
Yay! It's a bouncing baby blog! Now all we have to do is get people to visit. So come on and join the fun!
Jill Grammer Interview --
I have to tell you that Jill motivates me with her "can do" attitude and her grass roots beginnings. My recorder "hiccupped" for some reason during our interview, so this is only part of our interview -.
Kathy: You started this business right?
Jill: Yes. And the one sister that you just saw walk in, she’s my youngest sister, little sister; she was my first employee and so then I hired another sister and my mother worked with me for many years until she passed away.
K: How did you start out? Did you start in your home? What was the business concept? How did it evolve?
J: Actually I probably first, I think technically the story goes that I started in my home; but truly I have to take a step back behind to my mother’s office; I actually started in my apartment where my washer and dryer would have gone, if I’d had one and I operated in my kitchen. I stayed in the four plex and then just went my apartment and then finally got an office I actually got out of my home environment and then when the bedroom that was an office got maxed out; my sisters office was the kitchen table, that’s when we started realizing that we could use more space
K: So you were gathering and selling mailing lists?
J: Gathering – they were actually other people’s; it wasn’t something that we were actually compiling; we would go and find companies that had databases that they wanted to manage; it was their data and we would just kind of rent it out and be their representative and they would contact us. Or if a company wanted to go out and find potential customers, we would help them
K: A lot of people start mailing lists, buying lists from government agencies but you went to the private sector, right?
J: Yes the private sector with the understanding that the private sector is also the public sector; there’s a lot of private companies that go to the public lists and build large databases; so it’s a little bit of both but mostly it’s in the private area
K: And you compensate the companies
J: Right, they get; there’s a rental for the data
K: How many hours do you work a week?
J: I have other businesses
K: Other people or your own?
J: For myself,
K: It said in here you were a “serial entrepreneur” I like that. What kind of other businesses are you involved in?
J: We have garbage, we do construction removal on construction sites and then we also have properties; so we just kind of tried to diversify [recorder hiccup; this may have transcribed weird--but I think it's the "gist" of it....KM]
K: So you buy into other companies that you think have potential?
J: Yes, in those ways, yeah; and I’m writing my book and that is
K: I saw that; that’s exciting; so do you have a title yet
J: The first name we came up with is “ “ While I know from a marketing standpoint, that sells books at the same time my story in my book, I really try to focus on the bigger picture. [major hiccup here - and the name of that book was so cool; maybe if Jill reads this she will fill us in; it was just temporary name until it's finished and somebody comes up with the final name]
..... also I talk to the reader a fair amount of my book identifying what is success and that you can’t just look at one piece of it.
If you were looking at retiring, it can be very troubling, try to identify the bigger relationships that I have ...; I’m able to employ my family, that makes me really happy – It’s where we find our dreams individually; the walls we put up, we need to knock them down; now there is great opportunity... I want to dispel all of those myths; the time is now, it is right now; during crisis.
I was raised to always do something to bring in some money, always. There was never a time that we were not contributing in some way and I talk about this story ; father would bring product home from his company, we would sell them door to door or hold a sale in the parking lot; [major recorder hiccups here too; sorry; again, very cool story that was interrupted]
Lot of opportunity for women – they can be part of the solution;
K: So your book is directed particularly to women?
J: I would say that some of the concepts would apply to both men and women, but it is focused toward women mostly
K: Women have different perspectives, challenges
J: Absolutely
......Abusive relationship; I got out with my life basically; wrapped up in it
People look at me and say how on earth did this happen to you? I was in therapy and counseling all through my divorce so that I didn’t repeat the same pattern; I did not want [to repeat..]; my therapist would say go talk to these women who are in these situations; they want to categorize themselves a certain category of women;[therapist would say] I want them to see you; you tell them that is all women, it is all categories not just a couple over here and it’s true, it’s very true;
[Jill is explaining that women of all walks of life, in any situation at all, can be victims of abuse; no one is immune; no one should be ashamed-KM]
K: It feeds to the idea that they deserved it
J: I went through therapy and learned why it was happening, why I accepted it and once I recognized it, I realized I needed to work on Jill; I’m a human being, you don’t deserve it, it’s not your fault;
K: Is there a group locally?
J: There’s a bunch of little ones but not really a big group; there’s one called the chain breakers
K: So you work with a cancer organization as well?
J: My mother died of breast cancer; my goal, my foundation...; it’s not structurally complete yet; it’s going to be a place for the family to be supported once they have been diagnosed with terminal cancer. She got diagnosed and died six months later and it was like we’d been hit by a train and there wasn’t time to even know what was happening to us. Realizing that there are just no places to talk about it – have a place to have resources to understand what’s going on
K: A support group?
J: A support group
K: Really? There are none?
J: There are none. There are groups that you can go meet like around table through some of the cancer centers but really, there isn’t that much support until you get to the Hospice, then there’s cancer in the body tissue so it’s everywhere, they have more services; but as far as any kind of in house help; stories of what people have been through ; stories of treatment; treatment stories that have been positive, treatment stories that haven’t been positive; all of that;
K: I think you will be very successful with that; that’s definitely a need.
J: I believe that not only needs to be met; if you don’t have the relationship
[Re: Hiring people to work for her...KM]; don’t want them to be resentful and hate coming to work; relationships and balance; as a mom I have two little girls 4 and 6 with my 2nd husband; I was pregnant with my other employees, I was ten years older than they were ; me as a boss understanding; I understood; you’re not making them feel like they have to work more than they can; those things are important [hiccup, hiccup, hiccup throughout this section-KM]
K: What are the 3 Cs in your book - [see bottom of this blog entry/Jill's own words]Looking confident and speaking confidently is 99% of the battle;
K: If you believe in yourself
S: Absolutely ; and I’ve been in some meetings with CEOs you have to got to recognize that you are nervous but you’ve got to recognize the nervousness, recognize what you’re dealing with and that is the confidence that people need to see ; now walking into a business meeting, you want this account and you come in walking slowly slouching in your seat; what is that telling these people? People are now making an opinion about you; these guys want you on their team; when you think about the team you think about contributing to this team; is confidence about walking in, getting in, having a great conversation, being a contributor; in many ways the presentation of who you are can be your first step in the door. In incorporate them not only into my business but in my personal life too
K: With the technology these days, how has that changed; how does that affect your business now? What’s the most important to you:
J: Technology – we’ve evolved into a successful technology company; my abilities, my knowledge but at the same time – when technology evolved, if I had not evolved with it, my business would have been dead; developed their own software; talking to their clients; large databases; years ago I never even touched data, I didn’t have the ability to touch it: only dealt with the customers; I couldn’t do anything with the data if I wanted to; I was just the director of traffic, go here, go there; eventually the clients said the campaign is in Australia, so we had to figure out how to get them what they needed, how to build the software and identify and determine it’s availability;
K: So you had to have employees that could actually write software.
J: Write software and build the system;
That’s our competitive edge in the industry is our technology;
K: It’s not an out of the box kind of software that every mailing list company can have.
J; As it relates to Utah county, we have lots of resources here because of the large number of software companies that have been located here and as some left the area, many of their people who developed their software decided to stay here; so we have a great wealth of software engineers here. The business would not be alive today without that.
K: How are your customers finding you? How important is your website:
J: We have a lot of word of mouth because we specialize; we don’t deliver products online; our website is more of a billboard; our products are unique and have to be created on demand;
K: Marketing strategies to share?
J: In the beginning [I was reading the]“gorilla marketing” book – I needed to rent data; I needed sizeable (25,000 records) lists; bought all these publications; gourmet foods, crafts & notions magazines, I understood that industry; they sent out newsletters; I understood this customer; I was the consumer here; I went through the magazines and I sent out a letter to 30 companies that were selling quilting, or gourmet food and I got their data and one was a toll painting, decorative painting company but they were very unique; so these kind of methods didn’t cost me a ton of money but what I did ;..... When I wrote the letter, I have the original letter, it wasn’t the best letter but it was effective; I wrote I want to manage your data, I know there’s a lot of quilters and in a month; there was this company who was struggling financially and I was able to help them earn an extra $1000 a month
J: I would get a percentage of whatever money I would make her; they were thrilled; they could control what they shared
J: People look at list rental and they say “oooh” you’re selling my name, you know, we are but you know what? There’s a lot of good that comes from it; now are you a quilter and you receive a catalog with products in it that you might not be able to get if you live on the outskirts of town, you’re not; you actually appreciate it; at some point if you do become offended by it, let me know and [I take you off the list]
J: It doesn’t mean just one phone call, it means you may call them once a month for six months; following up with a letter; eventually they will take your phone call; that’s what you have to keep doing
K: Are you still specialized or can anybody call you for a list?
J: Yes, we can provide pretty much anything; we’re also going to give them some marketing advice too; you know because for me when their business is going really well, that is satisfying to me; every once in awhile, we don’t have a list but we need to put something at the top of our white paper “the top ten craziest list requests” but we need to keep it PG because I know some of them are out there.
The following are some written responses that Jill was kind enough to provide prior to our meeting:
1 –Jill is Director of American Name Services
Tell us about your organization –
American Name Services is a full service mailing list and data processing company.
When I began 13 years ago I was primarily an advertising service provider focusing on selling data. Today we are a technology resource that manages databases of all shapes and sizes. We also, train many companies on data management efficiencies and implementation.
How long have you been there? What are your responsibilities?
The company was founded in 1995. My main responsibilities is to stay abreast of the direct mail advertising industry and keep my clients on the cutting edge of this advertising medium. I am involved in guiding the innovation in our technology that keeps us competitive and consistently adding value to our services.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
I have been a member of the Direct Marketing Association and NAWBO for over ten years.
How did you get to this point in your career?
Can you share some suggestions for marketing/sales strategies with our readers?
Target your customers. Learn and study who your most potential customer is and then go out and find those people or businesses. When you can target your audience you can minimize the shot gun approach which sprays advertising dollars in directions that are not applicable. Create a dominant presence in a small locale first then grow from there.
2—Personal background
Where are you from? What brought you here? Family?
I was raised in southern California but graduated High School in Orem.
What do you want people to know about you? How would you describe yourself?
I am a serial entrepreneur. I love to be on the ground floor of business creations, which I feel I am doing almost every day. I am highly energetic and passionate about life and all the opportunities that are right within our reach.
3 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success?
I am writing a book about this s you will have to wait for the 250 page answer to this question. But I will say:
My three components to success—the three “C” ‘s are Communication, Consistency and confidence. These three components are critical to incorporate into your life for maximum success and happiness
How does success in the home compare to success in business?
They are really one in the same. Success in either place builds confidence that will continue to build within you exponentially. Being a great Mom helps me to be a great Boss, I wear both titles proudly.
How do you relax/renew?
I travel and Golf
Why did you get into sales & Marketing? Does it take a certain type of “personality”?
Sales and marketing takes quite a bit of creativity. But my personality is not entirely creative. I am very ananytical and I know that the combination of these two has contributed to my long term success and my clients. We must be result oriented. You cannot get emotional about a creative direction if it does not deliver the response.
Kathy: You started this business right?
Jill: Yes. And the one sister that you just saw walk in, she’s my youngest sister, little sister; she was my first employee and so then I hired another sister and my mother worked with me for many years until she passed away.
K: How did you start out? Did you start in your home? What was the business concept? How did it evolve?
J: Actually I probably first, I think technically the story goes that I started in my home; but truly I have to take a step back behind to my mother’s office; I actually started in my apartment where my washer and dryer would have gone, if I’d had one and I operated in my kitchen. I stayed in the four plex and then just went my apartment and then finally got an office I actually got out of my home environment and then when the bedroom that was an office got maxed out; my sisters office was the kitchen table, that’s when we started realizing that we could use more space
K: So you were gathering and selling mailing lists?
J: Gathering – they were actually other people’s; it wasn’t something that we were actually compiling; we would go and find companies that had databases that they wanted to manage; it was their data and we would just kind of rent it out and be their representative and they would contact us. Or if a company wanted to go out and find potential customers, we would help them
K: A lot of people start mailing lists, buying lists from government agencies but you went to the private sector, right?
J: Yes the private sector with the understanding that the private sector is also the public sector; there’s a lot of private companies that go to the public lists and build large databases; so it’s a little bit of both but mostly it’s in the private area
K: And you compensate the companies
J: Right, they get; there’s a rental for the data
K: How many hours do you work a week?
J: I have other businesses
K: Other people or your own?
J: For myself,
K: It said in here you were a “serial entrepreneur” I like that. What kind of other businesses are you involved in?
J: We have garbage, we do construction removal on construction sites and then we also have properties; so we just kind of tried to diversify [recorder hiccup; this may have transcribed weird--but I think it's the "gist" of it....KM]
K: So you buy into other companies that you think have potential?
J: Yes, in those ways, yeah; and I’m writing my book and that is
K: I saw that; that’s exciting; so do you have a title yet
J: The first name we came up with is “ “ While I know from a marketing standpoint, that sells books at the same time my story in my book, I really try to focus on the bigger picture. [major hiccup here - and the name of that book was so cool; maybe if Jill reads this she will fill us in; it was just temporary name until it's finished and somebody comes up with the final name]
..... also I talk to the reader a fair amount of my book identifying what is success and that you can’t just look at one piece of it.
If you were looking at retiring, it can be very troubling, try to identify the bigger relationships that I have ...; I’m able to employ my family, that makes me really happy – It’s where we find our dreams individually; the walls we put up, we need to knock them down; now there is great opportunity... I want to dispel all of those myths; the time is now, it is right now; during crisis.
I was raised to always do something to bring in some money, always. There was never a time that we were not contributing in some way and I talk about this story ; father would bring product home from his company, we would sell them door to door or hold a sale in the parking lot; [major recorder hiccups here too; sorry; again, very cool story that was interrupted]
Lot of opportunity for women – they can be part of the solution;
K: So your book is directed particularly to women?
J: I would say that some of the concepts would apply to both men and women, but it is focused toward women mostly
K: Women have different perspectives, challenges
J: Absolutely
......Abusive relationship; I got out with my life basically; wrapped up in it
People look at me and say how on earth did this happen to you? I was in therapy and counseling all through my divorce so that I didn’t repeat the same pattern; I did not want [to repeat..]; my therapist would say go talk to these women who are in these situations; they want to categorize themselves a certain category of women;[therapist would say] I want them to see you; you tell them that is all women, it is all categories not just a couple over here and it’s true, it’s very true;
[Jill is explaining that women of all walks of life, in any situation at all, can be victims of abuse; no one is immune; no one should be ashamed-KM]
K: It feeds to the idea that they deserved it
J: I went through therapy and learned why it was happening, why I accepted it and once I recognized it, I realized I needed to work on Jill; I’m a human being, you don’t deserve it, it’s not your fault;
K: Is there a group locally?
J: There’s a bunch of little ones but not really a big group; there’s one called the chain breakers
K: So you work with a cancer organization as well?
J: My mother died of breast cancer; my goal, my foundation...; it’s not structurally complete yet; it’s going to be a place for the family to be supported once they have been diagnosed with terminal cancer. She got diagnosed and died six months later and it was like we’d been hit by a train and there wasn’t time to even know what was happening to us. Realizing that there are just no places to talk about it – have a place to have resources to understand what’s going on
K: A support group?
J: A support group
K: Really? There are none?
J: There are none. There are groups that you can go meet like around table through some of the cancer centers but really, there isn’t that much support until you get to the Hospice, then there’s cancer in the body tissue so it’s everywhere, they have more services; but as far as any kind of in house help; stories of what people have been through ; stories of treatment; treatment stories that have been positive, treatment stories that haven’t been positive; all of that;
K: I think you will be very successful with that; that’s definitely a need.
J: I believe that not only needs to be met; if you don’t have the relationship
[Re: Hiring people to work for her...KM]; don’t want them to be resentful and hate coming to work; relationships and balance; as a mom I have two little girls 4 and 6 with my 2nd husband; I was pregnant with my other employees, I was ten years older than they were ; me as a boss understanding; I understood; you’re not making them feel like they have to work more than they can; those things are important [hiccup, hiccup, hiccup throughout this section-KM]
K: What are the 3 Cs in your book - [see bottom of this blog entry/Jill's own words]Looking confident and speaking confidently is 99% of the battle;
K: If you believe in yourself
S: Absolutely ; and I’ve been in some meetings with CEOs you have to got to recognize that you are nervous but you’ve got to recognize the nervousness, recognize what you’re dealing with and that is the confidence that people need to see ; now walking into a business meeting, you want this account and you come in walking slowly slouching in your seat; what is that telling these people? People are now making an opinion about you; these guys want you on their team; when you think about the team you think about contributing to this team; is confidence about walking in, getting in, having a great conversation, being a contributor; in many ways the presentation of who you are can be your first step in the door. In incorporate them not only into my business but in my personal life too
K: With the technology these days, how has that changed; how does that affect your business now? What’s the most important to you:
J: Technology – we’ve evolved into a successful technology company; my abilities, my knowledge but at the same time – when technology evolved, if I had not evolved with it, my business would have been dead; developed their own software; talking to their clients; large databases; years ago I never even touched data, I didn’t have the ability to touch it: only dealt with the customers; I couldn’t do anything with the data if I wanted to; I was just the director of traffic, go here, go there; eventually the clients said the campaign is in Australia, so we had to figure out how to get them what they needed, how to build the software and identify and determine it’s availability;
K: So you had to have employees that could actually write software.
J: Write software and build the system;
That’s our competitive edge in the industry is our technology;
K: It’s not an out of the box kind of software that every mailing list company can have.
J; As it relates to Utah county, we have lots of resources here because of the large number of software companies that have been located here and as some left the area, many of their people who developed their software decided to stay here; so we have a great wealth of software engineers here. The business would not be alive today without that.
K: How are your customers finding you? How important is your website:
J: We have a lot of word of mouth because we specialize; we don’t deliver products online; our website is more of a billboard; our products are unique and have to be created on demand;
K: Marketing strategies to share?
J: In the beginning [I was reading the]“gorilla marketing” book – I needed to rent data; I needed sizeable (25,000 records) lists; bought all these publications; gourmet foods, crafts & notions magazines, I understood that industry; they sent out newsletters; I understood this customer; I was the consumer here; I went through the magazines and I sent out a letter to 30 companies that were selling quilting, or gourmet food and I got their data and one was a toll painting, decorative painting company but they were very unique; so these kind of methods didn’t cost me a ton of money but what I did ;..... When I wrote the letter, I have the original letter, it wasn’t the best letter but it was effective; I wrote I want to manage your data, I know there’s a lot of quilters and in a month; there was this company who was struggling financially and I was able to help them earn an extra $1000 a month
J: I would get a percentage of whatever money I would make her; they were thrilled; they could control what they shared
J: People look at list rental and they say “oooh” you’re selling my name, you know, we are but you know what? There’s a lot of good that comes from it; now are you a quilter and you receive a catalog with products in it that you might not be able to get if you live on the outskirts of town, you’re not; you actually appreciate it; at some point if you do become offended by it, let me know and [I take you off the list]
J: It doesn’t mean just one phone call, it means you may call them once a month for six months; following up with a letter; eventually they will take your phone call; that’s what you have to keep doing
K: Are you still specialized or can anybody call you for a list?
J: Yes, we can provide pretty much anything; we’re also going to give them some marketing advice too; you know because for me when their business is going really well, that is satisfying to me; every once in awhile, we don’t have a list but we need to put something at the top of our white paper “the top ten craziest list requests” but we need to keep it PG because I know some of them are out there.
The following are some written responses that Jill was kind enough to provide prior to our meeting:
1 –Jill is Director of American Name Services
Tell us about your organization –
American Name Services is a full service mailing list and data processing company.
When I began 13 years ago I was primarily an advertising service provider focusing on selling data. Today we are a technology resource that manages databases of all shapes and sizes. We also, train many companies on data management efficiencies and implementation.
How long have you been there? What are your responsibilities?
The company was founded in 1995. My main responsibilities is to stay abreast of the direct mail advertising industry and keep my clients on the cutting edge of this advertising medium. I am involved in guiding the innovation in our technology that keeps us competitive and consistently adding value to our services.
Do you belong to any professional associations?
I have been a member of the Direct Marketing Association and NAWBO for over ten years.
How did you get to this point in your career?
Can you share some suggestions for marketing/sales strategies with our readers?
Target your customers. Learn and study who your most potential customer is and then go out and find those people or businesses. When you can target your audience you can minimize the shot gun approach which sprays advertising dollars in directions that are not applicable. Create a dominant presence in a small locale first then grow from there.
2—Personal background
Where are you from? What brought you here? Family?
I was raised in southern California but graduated High School in Orem.
What do you want people to know about you? How would you describe yourself?
I am a serial entrepreneur. I love to be on the ground floor of business creations, which I feel I am doing almost every day. I am highly energetic and passionate about life and all the opportunities that are right within our reach.
3 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success?
I am writing a book about this s you will have to wait for the 250 page answer to this question. But I will say:
My three components to success—the three “C” ‘s are Communication, Consistency and confidence. These three components are critical to incorporate into your life for maximum success and happiness
How does success in the home compare to success in business?
They are really one in the same. Success in either place builds confidence that will continue to build within you exponentially. Being a great Mom helps me to be a great Boss, I wear both titles proudly.
How do you relax/renew?
I travel and Golf
Why did you get into sales & Marketing? Does it take a certain type of “personality”?
Sales and marketing takes quite a bit of creativity. But my personality is not entirely creative. I am very ananytical and I know that the combination of these two has contributed to my long term success and my clients. We must be result oriented. You cannot get emotional about a creative direction if it does not deliver the response.
Karie Huzzey Interview ---
If you prefer to browse through the Q & A interview format, this is for you - Plus you might see a few extra tidbits of information about Karie. She is a fabulous, enthusiastic lady that makes you want to work harder and achieve more --- just to keep up with her!
1 -Karie is President of the Women in Business organization of North Utah County
Tell us about the organization – Our organization was established April 2006 through the North Utah County Chambers of Commerce. Mountain America Credit Union has been our dedicated charter sponsor.
When was it organized? It’s function/purpose/goals? Our vision is to create relationships through networking, educate through topical seminars, mentor youth and support our local and regional charities.
When do you holding meetings/activities (for calendar)? Our organization holds a luncheon on the fourth Wednesday of every month. We meet at a variety of locations throughout North Utah County with the intention to support our local businesses. Our annual Women’s Business & Wellness Conference is coming up in May. We will be hosting this event at the Tahitian Noni Corporate Headquarters. We will have incredible speakers, a delicious lunch, give-aways and much more. We anticipate having over 350 women to attend this fabulous event! Feel free to email me at karieh@opsmanaged.com for more details.
How many members do you have? We currently have a little over 50 members. However it is not required to be a member to attend the luncheons. If you are interested in attending, please just come and enjoy yourself!
How do you become a member? Benefits/Costs of membership. If you are currently a member of the Chamber of Commerce, the cost of membership, annually is $20. For non-members the cost is $50. To become a member you can contact the American Fork or Lehi Chamber of Commerce.
How long have you belonged to the organization? Been president? My term as President is April 2008 to April 2009. However, I am proud to say that I had the opportunity to be involved with the organization when it was just a vision. The title “President” sounds great and everything, but this organization has so many incredible, talented and dedicated women involved that I am inspired to do my best because of their example.
Other women leading the organization? (any of them recommended for future interviews)
President Elect; Cookie Conrad, Business owner for Custom Tailoring
Lunch Coordinator; Rose Klingonsmith, Director of Lehi Chamber of Commerce
Lunch locations; Gayla Bell, Mountain America Credit Union
Speaker Coordinator; Amy Morgan, Morgan Law Firm
Treasurer; Debby Lauret, Director of American Fork Chamber of Commerce
Membership; Allison Yeager, Real Time Advertising
2 – Karie is VP of Sales & Marketing
How did you get to this point in your career? Hard work, hard work and more hard work!
Education? Previous positions leading to this? To most people’s surprise, I have no college education. I have my high school diploma and a vision of being the best salesperson on the planet! I have been involved in sales for a little over 5 years, what some might call a very short period of time. However, I have been in the business of developing relationships for over 20 years…and that is what has taken me to the next level in my career. I believe that by understanding my customer…..what my customers needs are, spending the necessary time to get to know them….earning their trust, and then delivering impeccable customer service, I will have the success I desire.
What are your responsibilities in your present position? I create, develop and implement both the sales and marketing strategy. I work with the inside/outside sales team on developing our existing customers, research and identify companies that need our services, and then create a strategy to approach these companies with a solution to their printing, manufacturing and distribution needs. As part of that research, I oversee the development of our website, company brochures….all the marketing materials used in marketing Elite Ops to our future customers.
How would you describe your leadership style? I lead by example. I do not expect my team do anything I am not willing to do.
How many women are in executive positions in your company? Anna Hainsworth, VP of Manufacturing
Insights about women executives in predominantly male dominated companies - I feel that because traditionally the man is the bread winner in the family, men have dominated the workforce in most industries. Times are changing and more and more women are realizing that they can have both a family and a successful career. Women owned businesses are the fastest growing minority in the US economy today. And more and more resources are being offered specifically to women owned businesses because of the impact they have on the economy.
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men? I prefer not to separate by gender. I know that every individual has their strengths and weaknesses. How we choose to use our strengths and improve on our weaknesses is what sets us apart as a business professional.
3—Personal background
Where are you from? Payson, Utah
What brought you here? Family? (Marital status, children, etc) I have been married for 16 years this August. I have four children, three girls and a boy.
What do you want people to know about you? I am just as aggressive in my personal life as I am in my professional life.
How would you describe yourself? I am someone who loves to live life.
What do you give up (for your career) in terms of social life? Family life? Working full time, I do sacrifice some family time. I miss being home when my children get home from school. However, I do feel that my knowledge and the experiences I gain from my career can also help my children learn life-long principals and develop additional skills.
4 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success? My version of success can be described in three words….Vision, passion and persistence. You have to have a vision, something you are striving for. You must have a passion for what you do. Without a vision, without passion, you won’t have the desire to be persistent. Life is full of set-backs…..passion is what keeps you moving forward.
How does success in the home compare to success in business? No difference what so ever. I apply the same principals. I try to learn about the people I surround myself with, including my children and husband.
Lesson (s) you have learned that every woman should know. Remember to devote time to yourself.
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance? My family is my main priority. They are the reason I strive to be successful in my professional life. I want to be a good example to them, teach them what I learn and have the financial freedom to have the ability to travel and enjoy the time we spend together. Balancing both professional and personal can be very tricky at times. Thankfully I have a husband that fully supports me and we both share in the responsibilities of sick kids, doctors appointments, meetings with teachers, all the fun things that come along with kids.
How do you relax/renew? I love motorcycles, dirt bikes specifically. I have a passion for Motocross. All year round, if the weather will allow it, I am out riding with my family!
Why did you get into sales & Marketing? I never imagined myself as a salesperson. But over time as I worked for various companies I realized my strengths are with the customer. So I decided to learn how to use my natural ability to my advantage and the success I have had in my career is a byproduct of what I have learned and implemented.
Do you have any pet peeves? No. I try to be patient with others, as I am not perfect either.
Any favorite causes? I believe in service. That is what drives me to be a part of Women in Business. I am also a member of the American Fork Rotary Club. I have enjoyed all the service projects and fund raisers our club has been a part of. My favorite service project is the Backpack Attack. At the end of the school year we work with the local schools, elementary, junior and high schools, in gathering the back packs the kids would otherwise throw away. Once we have gathered the back packs we work with local businesses that have donated school supplies and we place these supplies in the back packs and ship them overseas to children who cannot always afford them. Even my children participate with this event.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message? “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at time of challenge and controversy.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
1 -Karie is President of the Women in Business organization of North Utah County
Tell us about the organization – Our organization was established April 2006 through the North Utah County Chambers of Commerce. Mountain America Credit Union has been our dedicated charter sponsor.
When was it organized? It’s function/purpose/goals? Our vision is to create relationships through networking, educate through topical seminars, mentor youth and support our local and regional charities.
When do you holding meetings/activities (for calendar)? Our organization holds a luncheon on the fourth Wednesday of every month. We meet at a variety of locations throughout North Utah County with the intention to support our local businesses. Our annual Women’s Business & Wellness Conference is coming up in May. We will be hosting this event at the Tahitian Noni Corporate Headquarters. We will have incredible speakers, a delicious lunch, give-aways and much more. We anticipate having over 350 women to attend this fabulous event! Feel free to email me at karieh@opsmanaged.com for more details.
How many members do you have? We currently have a little over 50 members. However it is not required to be a member to attend the luncheons. If you are interested in attending, please just come and enjoy yourself!
How do you become a member? Benefits/Costs of membership. If you are currently a member of the Chamber of Commerce, the cost of membership, annually is $20. For non-members the cost is $50. To become a member you can contact the American Fork or Lehi Chamber of Commerce.
How long have you belonged to the organization? Been president? My term as President is April 2008 to April 2009. However, I am proud to say that I had the opportunity to be involved with the organization when it was just a vision. The title “President” sounds great and everything, but this organization has so many incredible, talented and dedicated women involved that I am inspired to do my best because of their example.
Other women leading the organization? (any of them recommended for future interviews)
President Elect; Cookie Conrad, Business owner for Custom Tailoring
Lunch Coordinator; Rose Klingonsmith, Director of Lehi Chamber of Commerce
Lunch locations; Gayla Bell, Mountain America Credit Union
Speaker Coordinator; Amy Morgan, Morgan Law Firm
Treasurer; Debby Lauret, Director of American Fork Chamber of Commerce
Membership; Allison Yeager, Real Time Advertising
2 – Karie is VP of Sales & Marketing
How did you get to this point in your career? Hard work, hard work and more hard work!
Education? Previous positions leading to this? To most people’s surprise, I have no college education. I have my high school diploma and a vision of being the best salesperson on the planet! I have been involved in sales for a little over 5 years, what some might call a very short period of time. However, I have been in the business of developing relationships for over 20 years…and that is what has taken me to the next level in my career. I believe that by understanding my customer…..what my customers needs are, spending the necessary time to get to know them….earning their trust, and then delivering impeccable customer service, I will have the success I desire.
What are your responsibilities in your present position? I create, develop and implement both the sales and marketing strategy. I work with the inside/outside sales team on developing our existing customers, research and identify companies that need our services, and then create a strategy to approach these companies with a solution to their printing, manufacturing and distribution needs. As part of that research, I oversee the development of our website, company brochures….all the marketing materials used in marketing Elite Ops to our future customers.
How would you describe your leadership style? I lead by example. I do not expect my team do anything I am not willing to do.
How many women are in executive positions in your company? Anna Hainsworth, VP of Manufacturing
Insights about women executives in predominantly male dominated companies - I feel that because traditionally the man is the bread winner in the family, men have dominated the workforce in most industries. Times are changing and more and more women are realizing that they can have both a family and a successful career. Women owned businesses are the fastest growing minority in the US economy today. And more and more resources are being offered specifically to women owned businesses because of the impact they have on the economy.
How do women approach job responsibilities (sales/mgmt/etc) differently than men? I prefer not to separate by gender. I know that every individual has their strengths and weaknesses. How we choose to use our strengths and improve on our weaknesses is what sets us apart as a business professional.
3—Personal background
Where are you from? Payson, Utah
What brought you here? Family? (Marital status, children, etc) I have been married for 16 years this August. I have four children, three girls and a boy.
What do you want people to know about you? I am just as aggressive in my personal life as I am in my professional life.
How would you describe yourself? I am someone who loves to live life.
What do you give up (for your career) in terms of social life? Family life? Working full time, I do sacrifice some family time. I miss being home when my children get home from school. However, I do feel that my knowledge and the experiences I gain from my career can also help my children learn life-long principals and develop additional skills.
4 – Insights
What do you think is necessary for success? My version of success can be described in three words….Vision, passion and persistence. You have to have a vision, something you are striving for. You must have a passion for what you do. Without a vision, without passion, you won’t have the desire to be persistent. Life is full of set-backs…..passion is what keeps you moving forward.
How does success in the home compare to success in business? No difference what so ever. I apply the same principals. I try to learn about the people I surround myself with, including my children and husband.
Lesson (s) you have learned that every woman should know. Remember to devote time to yourself.
What are your priorities in life & how do you achieve balance? My family is my main priority. They are the reason I strive to be successful in my professional life. I want to be a good example to them, teach them what I learn and have the financial freedom to have the ability to travel and enjoy the time we spend together. Balancing both professional and personal can be very tricky at times. Thankfully I have a husband that fully supports me and we both share in the responsibilities of sick kids, doctors appointments, meetings with teachers, all the fun things that come along with kids.
How do you relax/renew? I love motorcycles, dirt bikes specifically. I have a passion for Motocross. All year round, if the weather will allow it, I am out riding with my family!
Why did you get into sales & Marketing? I never imagined myself as a salesperson. But over time as I worked for various companies I realized my strengths are with the customer. So I decided to learn how to use my natural ability to my advantage and the success I have had in my career is a byproduct of what I have learned and implemented.
Do you have any pet peeves? No. I try to be patient with others, as I am not perfect either.
Any favorite causes? I believe in service. That is what drives me to be a part of Women in Business. I am also a member of the American Fork Rotary Club. I have enjoyed all the service projects and fund raisers our club has been a part of. My favorite service project is the Backpack Attack. At the end of the school year we work with the local schools, elementary, junior and high schools, in gathering the back packs the kids would otherwise throw away. Once we have gathered the back packs we work with local businesses that have donated school supplies and we place these supplies in the back packs and ship them overseas to children who cannot always afford them. Even my children participate with this event.
Do you have a favorite quote or inspirational message? “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at time of challenge and controversy.” Martin Luther King, Jr.
The May/June issue is in the mail!!!
Woo Hoo! You're all gonna LOVE this one! I'll get it on the blog if I can. You can see a picture of the cover on the link to the regular Women in Business magazine website (right side of the blog, down, down, down; yep, the one with the bright pink background and Karie Huzzey's photo)
You'll find the last three issues on the website if you'd like to browse through those and I'll let you know when the newest one is uploaded there.
If you don't get a copy in the mail, let me know. If you know someone who wants to be added to our mailing list, let me know that too! Remember, for now it is FREE and is mailed to 10,000 women throughout this beautiful county of ours.
You'll find the last three issues on the website if you'd like to browse through those and I'll let you know when the newest one is uploaded there.
If you don't get a copy in the mail, let me know. If you know someone who wants to be added to our mailing list, let me know that too! Remember, for now it is FREE and is mailed to 10,000 women throughout this beautiful county of ours.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Interview with Judith Rasband ***Dressing for Success
Quotes from the interview:
“Here’s the universal affects of image- the way you think, the way you feel, the way you act- and only then, the way others react or respond to you”
“Our young people haven’t got a clue where their waistline is, not a clue”
“What does professional mean in dress standards that I use?; authentic, appropriate, attractive and affordable “
“The number one fear is fashion. And I’m here to say, hey, it’s time to take out the fear, put back in the fun. “
“We need to define where it is we want to go, what we want to do, we need to make our dress and image part of our business plan”
“you’re never fully dressed without a smile. That’s the bottom line”
Interview with Judith Rasband – January 28, 2009
for Women in Business magazine by Sandy Hatchett
Sandy: Judith, welcome to this interview process. Thanks for hosting me here in your lovely office. Let’s begin with some personal information about you. Kind of who you are
S: where are you from? How do you identify yourself?
J: OK, born and raised in Washington state, long ways from here - wet , rainy, grey skies; I came to Utah to study dance at the University of Utah; big career ideas; first semester, stripped the tendons away from my ligaments in my calf and that was the end of that. And so I had to go into something else but I loved Utah; because we get sunshine and I really appreciate that. So I stayed.
S: So did you meet your husband here?
J: Yes, his sister set us up on a blind date, so I tell everybody- don’t make a big deal, a bad deal, about blind dates; I married mine, and I know a lot of people who do.
S: My parents are a blind date couple
J: Yeah, she fixed me up; took me years to figure it out, why she picked me; there is a logic; I was a “spur” up there and I was the sophomore honorary; we wore a uniform with this big megaphone or something on it; looked like a cheerleader but it wasn’t; I guess they have spurs, that’s what it was, spurs on it, and that was a service organization and they made me honorary and that uniform, we finally figured it out, that uniform communicated that I had a brain and I was organized, could get things done, and I was doing things, which she thought were things he would appreciate. It took me years to figure it out but I said; I didn’t know her, not well at all; how could she have picked me? And I decided the only thing that would have stood out would have been that uniform. And then it started to fall into place and make sense.
S: Ok; well, let’s talk for a second about your children, do you have children?
J: Yeah, four. Three birth children, one adopted from India.
S: Oh my.
J: One girl, three boys
S: So did you go to India?
J: No actually; par for the course, you know, when you’ve decided to adopt, lots of times you end up pregnant. Now we adopted an older child thinking we were too old to start over and I found I was pregnant and so I couldn’t go; that actually turned out to be a disaster because that little boy was stillborn. And I feel quite sure that Heavenly Father knew what I could and couldn’t handle. And that little boy, they told me was Downs Syndrome; when he was born, he looked fine to me, perfect, so I’ve always wondered, but if he had been and then with the problems we’ve had, I probably couldn’t have handled it. So I hope I get him someday.
S: He’s still yours.
J: That’s right
S: Ok so you were at the University. Quickly had to change course because you were going to dance, then you couldn’t -
J: Went into Home Economics education; I love the home arts, definitely high value there. And so I went into the home arts, home economics - should have been called home management and have a little more respect. I later specialized in the clothing area. That is a natural. All my high school years, I was the high school thespian; you know, school play, senior play all of that kind of stuff. And I learned early the communication factor in dress and grooming.
S: And that was just a natural interest?
J: Yeah, absolutely, one of the plays I was in I remember the name, Nuts in May, and the opening scene they’ve got me asleep in the bed and I get up - my hair then was clear down to my hips - and I got up and I do my hair in a wonderful French twist -and that was the most talked about thing- but it took me from very relaxed and homebody looking, to very professional as you go on into the play. But I was doing costumes and makeup and all that sort of thing for the character, just early on.
S: So at what point did you switch from theatre and costuming to what you do now?
J: Well, the dance, of course, went right along with that, musical comedy style and ballet - I lost that- it’s a natural, the creative arts; that’s what the home arts are and clothing, particularly fabrications, I mean, it’s in my fingers. The fabrics, the colors, the textures, I work with visual design and dress, so there they are, the elements of design: line, shape, color, texture, patterns.
S: So is that something that a person can get a degree in?
J: Yes
S: Is your degree in …?
J: My first degree is in home economics education, which now is called family and consumer science in a lot of places. They’ve tried to make it more, get more respect for the field, which people still do not. Not even in Utah; there’s very little value for the woman working in the home. But, get me back to where I was. Yes, a degree. Home economics education, which involves the nutrition, child development, rearing, psychology, sociology, anthropology & anatomy; all these things I use now constantly. The time management, money management - all of that ties in with dress. The psych ,values ,communication- all that sort of thing. So it was a natural to then focus on the clothing with colors, fabrics; I love that. And I don’t even design, really, I’m not a good fashion designer; I prefer the classics with a fashion forward creative edge to it; I do wonderful things; pulling the things together, that’s what I love.
S: So do you sew?
J: Yeah, oh yeah, tailor, all of that. My first job was teaching at University of Utah and I taught tailoring and visual design in dress. That was my first job. Then I taught junior high, high school, adult ed in Granite District in Salt Lake City. And then we went to graduate school in Princeton, New Jersey and that was a wonderful experience in cultural differences and the application to dress. We went from there as visiting professors down to Louisiana State University and again, totally different kind of a culture and wonderful experience and dress related; l the physical needs of dress, as you were in that terrible humidity there, which I still would say is terrible, miserable.
S: I’m from the Midwest, I understand.
J: Oh, you know what I’m talking about. When we moved back to New Jersey, I grew up in Washington, so I thought I knew what humidity was, wrong; humidity I got in the Midwest and New Jersey and then double barreled in Louisiana. So, physical needs became very paramount there. I started graduate school there in textiles, discovered that wasn’t for me. The machines for making things, that just isn’t where I am ; I’m definitely in the aesthetic or artistic aspect, the social psychological aspect, so that’s what I then did my next degree in; within the artistic, social psychological aspect of dress.
S: And where was
J: That was at BYU because by then my husband was back here on faculty as a physicist.
S: So is he retired from BYU?
J: Just now, uh huh, just now. Yeah. So I - within just a few months- they called and wanted me to come teach at BYU and I taught there for 12 years.
S: Oh, ok, but you’re not teaching there now
J: Because they lost the department
S: So that was a long time ago then
J: Long time, yep, long time ago
S: Ok so tell me; so is that what made you start your current business concept?
J: Well, the business end of it started when people, parents, started calling me and saying you know, you did this for my child, my daughter and so on, in your class; would you come and do it for me? And that’s how the private consulting got going. Not that I hadn’t done it in New Jersey and so on before that and taught private classes and such. But that’s one of the things I really started to hear and then the Daily Herald called me and wanted me to do a newspaper column and I loved that; I took flak for it but I loved it because (I was) getting the information to the people
J: My column came out here for years and then it went up to Salt Lake City and 16 papers in the west; and I was ten years with Deseret News; I loved it; only stopped because of my chemo; had to stop with my chemo.
S; And what year was that?
J: ’89; that year I know right off.
S: I suspected that you would know that
J: Everything is BC, before cancer; and after cancer.
S: I have some cancer survivors in my family so I understand, I understand that
S: So how do you, now in the position that you’re in, how do you reach out to women? I mean, I found you by seeing you on BYU television; so what do you do now to reach out to women?
J: The writing, I love the writing. We do retreats, but most of my work is by word of mouth; one woman to another, a man to his wife, a wife to her husband, a wife to the husband to the business owner and so on; seminars and public places and then the small group retreats, private consulting, they find me now, of course, more newly, on the internet. You know, we didn’t use to have that; in the phone book, it used to be the yellow pages they might find me and now it’s the internet
S: And you do consulting for men and women a lot.
J: You bet, absolutely, and children; families in crisis.
S: Really?
J: Yep
S: In crisis, as in?
J: Hating each other, conflicts, value conflicts of redress and appearance. You know, well the family where they’ve got a child who’s going off the deep end, extreme, in their dress and for a lot of people they’re gonna say “oh pick your battles, Judy”; it doesn’t matter, dress doesn’t matter; want to bet?; wrong. They get stuck in that phase, you know, people say it’s just a phase, well, guess what? Very often they get stuck in the phase.
S: And can you take that chance?
J: That’s right, you cannot take too many because of where it leads; how many have seen a 60 or 70 year old hippie?
S: I have
J: You know? They’re still stuck. And they’ve done very little in the way of self development or improvement. Done very little service for anybody else in the community, the world, or whatever, made very little contribution, just very self absorbed.
S: So how do you change the mind of a teenager?
J: That’s where the fun comes. Yeah, the psychology and working with it; oh it’s incredible and the scariest ones are the ones who their dress is going to take them down a road to drugs, alcohol and sex and so on; and we get it all the time.
S: And how would you describe that type of dress?
J: Well, the easiest, the obvious, is when they start dressing all black and chains
S: All “goth”?
J: Yeah, the “goth” look. That was definitely a timely look and we still get some of that. Right now, it’s deconstruction in dress. Where they take perfectly good dress and ruin it or they buy it already ruined at some high price
S: Where it’s torn and stained and the seams are on the outside
J: Yeah, see it’s not the traditional, it’s not the harmony, it’s not the classic look or even creative look; it’s totally deconstruction; take something that was nice and make it not nice; it’s a whole trend where what used to be nice isn’t anymore; it’s really sad.
S: And what do you say to kids when they say, well, that’s in style?
J: Well, then we have to find out where the style came from; and of course, in those cases, it’s hip hop designers who are trying to make the women, get the women to do extreme, some extreme aspect in dress; for example and I’m practically famous for this, but the manure pants. So you’ve got the dirt stain, dirty denim. Where did it come from? Hip hop designers, back east, who were aware of episodes in a new York city museum where the vandals spread fecal material over the pictures of Madonna and child, the Madonna and child. Oh hey, let’s see if we can get the girls to wear this on their clothes? So that’s where you get the brown stained denim. Now again, I’m practically famous for this one, it’s crazy, infamous, that’s a better word; the wrinkles at the crotch,
S: They call them whiskers?
J: Whiskers. You’ve got it and if you just think about it for a second or two, let’s see if we can get the girls to wear their pants looking as dirty as they can, which includes wrinkles at the crotch and we’re going to call them wrinkles. Attention goes to contrast, right smack to that crotch for casual sex. It’s exactly what it’s all about. Now it’s, I know what’s happening with some of the trends of that extreme sort and I can explain it to the young person and I have visuals, I have pictures
S: And what if the young person says, well, I’m not trying to get anybody to look at my crotch.
J: you may not be trying, but you can’t do anything about it because attention goes to contrast. That’s where their attention is going, regardless to whether you were intending or not. Now we’ve got a lot of people, they are intending. And that’s a key word that you just said right there and I will ask, what is your intent? And you gotta keep interviewing and interviewing to finally get them down to where they will tell the truth
S: And they say my intent is to be like my friends
J: That’s often what ‘s said, to fit in; but then we have to talk about - is it distracting?- and the key word is distracting. Is it distracting (from) the purpose of education in school, business leadership or worship, it doesn’t belong.
S: But what if they don’t value education, business leadership or worship?
J: That’s right; that’s what I’m dealing with; I’ve got to find something they do value; it’s around the block; it’s not easy; and my one line, it’s something else and I say “Hey, what I do is not rocket science; it’s harder. It’s harder.” You’re dealing with the psyche, you’re dealing with anatomy, and you know there are endless variables with both of those. And then we’re dealing with visual design where there are endless variables
S: and we become very emotional about our clothes
J: There you go. Anything to do with… It’s the most controversial topic, emotional controversial, second only to evolution.
S: So do you get feedback from people …
J: Oh you bet I do, I get the hate mail.
S: You can’t tell me what to wear?
J: Yeah, I get the hate mail; and it’s always nasty.
S: How do you feel about that?
J: It only reinforces what I’ve learned over the years. Because they’re always rude or crude, nasty; and the people who are nice to me, they look nice; look nice, feel nice, be nice, others are nicer to you.
S: So it doesn’t influence you in a negative way? Doesn’t hurt your feelings?
J: It could have years ago; I know it’s going to come with this because it is a personal and emotional subject and very close to home. Anything about dress is like, it’s a threat to them and I figured that out. I know that segment of the population is going to be mad at me and as long as I know that’s the possibility; no , it doesn’t hurt me at all because you know the rationale that they’re going to be using. Where I get hurt is if I don’t expect it. And that’ll happen once in awhile but not too often. Where I can get shot down is if there’s something that I haven’t thought of, that’s where, I’m always trying to figure it out before I go out there. Constant pondering -
S: But getting that feedback also gives you a place to focus your attention and figure that out?
J: Exactly. I got an interesting feedback; a fellow who at the end of the program regarding deconstruction, he said “get used to it babe; it’s post modern deconstruction” and the way he said it was very vile. He was trying to put me down and that one we get all the time; why are you so dressed up? You look terrific today, Sandy. They’re always going to say, why are you so dressed up? And they say it in such a way that it’s a put down to you to make you feel uncomfortable, out of place and to build them up. And it works. And our people right here in Utah have fallen for it, hook, line and sinker; it’s just amazing; you have to put - for the kids, going to school to look nice - you have to have something in their head to come out of their mouth. You know, “just say no”, you know, that kind of a thing. I tell them. When they’re saying, why don’t you wear this and this, “that’s not my style”. But you’ve gotta put it in their head to come out the mouth. And with the other, why are you so dressed up?, “well, it makes me feel terrific”. “Well, I’m worth it”. “Well, why are you so dressed down? “ Turn it around. One woman said, “this is my gift to you”. I got the biggest kick out of that. This was a gal from the south, just neat, a character from the word go, but fantastic, and she said that with every intent, genuine, wonderful, loving; “this is my gift to you”. In the workplace, “because I intend to keep my job”.
S: So dressing is way more than just picking things that look good together.
J: That’s right, absolutely. The soc/psych aspect is so, the world, but particularly Utah Valley, have enough scriptural acquaintance, and that’s all it is, no knowledge, acquaintance with the idea that dress is frivolous and vain; they’ve gone overboard that there should be no attention. I got a letter, oh my gosh, I saved it; it’s a marvelous letter, it’s so bad; the insights it gave me to this person who wrote me and tried to explain to me that we should give no thought to dress. Now this is, this is wrong.
S: IS that even possible?
J: No , not really, no, it’s an excuse. It’s an excuse. But people extrapolate, they take the idea that dress is vain and frivolous and therefore we should pay no attention to it.
S: Do you believe it’s possible to take that too far?
J: Oh yeah, absolutely. We’ve got people in Utah Valley that are not only ignorant but arrogant. We got men who take pride in not taking care of themselves.
S: But I mean is it possible that people could get so fixed on how they look?
J: Oh yes, that of course, either extreme, either extreme, gets us in trouble; you know extremes get us in trouble no matter what it is
S: Any topic
J: Yes, dress is interesting, dress and image because there is not one subject matter field out there that you can name that doesn’t have some relationship to dress. Not one.
S: OK, I’ll believe you
J: We could be here all day if we did that, but seriously, there is a relationship in every aspect of our lives, there is a clothing relationship in every one and most people don’t even think about it anymore.
S: We’re addressing women in business. So I’m a woman in business
J: And you’re looking terrific
S: Well, I’m trying to look appropriate for the setting that we’re in. Not every setting
J: Level three, you’ve got a jacket on; it’s coordinated but it’s not matched so there’s a relaxation there; it’s a fashion color, it’s brighter, it’s lively, which stimulates the conversation
S: But what if my job, if I’m a cake decorator, then this would be inappropriate
J: For that actual process of decorating a cake, you might get it onto that jacket and then you’re going to have to clean it more times than it should be and it’ll be worn out, you’ll waste your money, dadadada. But the need to pay attention to clothing is every bit as important; you want it durable, you’ve got to be able to clean it, get the dies out, things like that; because otherwise it becomes distracting to them. It’s got to be of a weight that’s going to be comfortable for the job that they’re doing; they’ve got to have shoes that are going to give the kind of support they need because most of the time they’re standing. So those are just a few things and probably in between doing the decorating maybe they’re managing the desk and taking orders
S: Waiting on customers
J: Yes, exactly; so there we need them to be able to focus on the face and what that person is communicating; they need to look knowledgeable, organized, efficient, effective; as this person places this order and they’ve got to appear that way also to set their price and have their price be accepted. And the styling they’re going to do on that cake, now see there, I’m using visuals to design a dress, the cake decorator’s using visuals to design a cake decoration, hello? The same thing. The gardener, all of them, same thing
S: And so the thing to do is if you’re dress matches your occupation, then you have the professional look without being a level three or four but you look completely professional
J: Ok now what does professional mean? You see every word has to be defined; what does professional mean in dress standards that I use? authentic, appropriate, attractive and affordable – authentic for the role; what they’re actually doing
S: Perhaps that’s the word I am using
J: Now appropriate, looking like you belong in that role; you know what to do, how to do it, how to get it done and they’re gonna get it done. So that calls for different things depending on the profession and that calls even for difference within the profession depending on what geographical area of the country we’re living in. With our clientele, all of this sort of thing has come into whatever that dress code is.
S: .. sometimes it seems like, as I go around as a consumer, that people don’t require much of their employees
J: Not anymore I know, why do you think everybody’s going out of business? Nobody knows how to do anything anymore.
S: But do you suppose the people avoid that because they don’t know what to require, are afraid to require, all of that?
J: Absolutely, definitely. Now there is no real dress code except the one that I created – the style scale, personal professional style scale, and that works, that gives you a visualization, dressing up and down means something, and we can define it in terms of the elements of design. What are those actual cues? You know everybody says or hears at some point, or reads at some point, “look out for the message you’re sending”. Or” watch out about the statement you’re sending”.
S: If you don’t know how to send a statement, it doesn’t matter what it is
J: That’s right, but what they really don’t know is they haven’t gotten a clue what’s doing the talking; and what’s doing the talking are the elements and principles of design, the lines, shapes, colors, textures and patterns. How they’re put together; the balance proportion scale, the rhythmic eye movements throughout the outfit leading to one dominant focal point and for business, leadership needs to be up around the face; social, it can be lower on the body. Relaxed or social, but for business leadership, it’s your face where you communicate and you’ve got to have the focus up there. And if we’ve got a hole in the $360 Levis, that’s distracting, attention goes away from the face; we get the character who in his arrogance who wears the white shirt, which there’s nothing sacred about that, by the way, but he wears the French cuff and he lets them all flop. He doesn’t put a cuff link and he lets them flop and he thinks he’s being cool but what does that really mean? Well, they think they’re being brave; they’re so brave they’ll do that and I’m not, we’re not, we’re not brave enough to wear our cuff link shirts without cufflinks. But what they don’t realize, it’s just totally distracting with things flapping around; they’re never going to accomplish a real goal; it’s not going to happen; they’re going to make a major statement of defiance but they’re not going to accomplish anything of value.
S: And so defiance, sort of works at odds with cooperation, progress
J: Absolutely, defiance and rebellion, and they’re intent with those sleeves flapping, their intent is to make a statement; I’m cool, my dad wore his shirts buttoned there at the cuff; I’m so brave, I choose not to; I refuse to do that. It’s a rebellion, defiance.
S: And people think though that rebellion is the beginning of progress and you would disagree with that
J: Oh yeah, absolutely. People think that dress is a safe way to rebel. What they’re really doing is saying they’re pretty stupid. What they’re really doing, the little gal I saw in the store yesterday, pushing the grocery cart, probably was a student, she’s there with a roommate and she’s (wearing) a t shirt and pink pajamas on. Yeah, the grocery store. And it’s just flannel and they’re fuller cut, you know, to be comfortable in bed, so these pants are made out of flannel. What. She thinks she’s cute. Not. And she’s actually looking pretty much heavier than she really was and she wasn’t trim and that’s alright too, depending on her values there and her health. But it becomes distracting, a little pattern in the pajama bottom and you see, in the grocery store that did not communicate she knew what she was doing where and so on. She thinks she’s really clever and what it really looks like is she doesn’t know how to dress. She hasn’t got a clue. She’s doing this because it’s a trend she’s following, she’s a follower. And so there’s probably little leadership ability, probably, and notice my word, probably, because I don’t really know, but what is she communicating?
S: You’ve observed her
J: Yeah, that’s right, the observation. And what’s really coming across is that there is little organization, efficiency, effectiveness; it’s not gonna happen; she’s more caught up in herself, very self absorbed; that’s what comes across because she’s choosing to wear her pajamas that she got out of bed in or to look like that and has come to the store. In that attire, the people are not going to accomplish what they could accomplish if they weren’t caught up in that sort of thing, which is what they are. We could talk all day
S: So they couldn’t, they certainly could purchase groceries in their pajamas but you’re talking about in the bigger picture of their lives that that kind of attitude that drives you to wear your pajamas to the grocery store will limit you in other areas.
J: yeah, exactly and she’s expressing a defiance. A substantial degree of defiance; thinks it’s cute, thinks its clever, thinks she’s brave because her roommate and others aren’t doing it; she’s the brave one. When, if I do the surveys, and I do, we do the surveys, and it’s gonna come down to dumb and stupid.
S: So when you survey people ?
J: I show them a picture and ask what it communicates. That’s all I say. They’ll ask me all sorts of questions, I give no answers, it’s up to you; your impression, your observation. What comes to mind; what’s your first descriptive thought
S: Do you notice if somebody is wearing pajamas, if they would describe that person differently than someone like you and I. I would look at that and I would probably say it looks stupid, but what if you’re a pajama wearer, would that person look at that and relate to that in a different way?
J: They also think they are cute and clever; we tend to attract, likes attract like; ok, we know that; and so they’re most comfortable with people who dress like themselves. That is just standard psychology there, that we’re more comfortable with people who are like us and so we seek that out.
S: So the adjective they would use would be much more positive.
J: Oh yes, absolutely. But if you really keep at them in an inquisitory kind of a way, you eventually get down to rock bottom and it’s an amazing experience when they get down there. I was with a college group and (asked) what does it mean to be in fashion? And somebody, without even thinking, she said, “.. fashionable, to be in style”, that was it; ; what does it mean to be in style? “fashionable”. What does that mean? “Edgy” What does that mean? ”Sexy” and it was out and then looking around. This was a board group.
S: Is there a difference to you between fashion and style?
J: Absolutely.
S: And what would that difference be?
J: Well, fashion and even there (are) different definitions of fashion. Fashion is the prevailing look of the times. And fashion is the mirror of history. And if you think about that, we’re living in a very scary time right now of rebellion, it’s a very scary time. Style, very simply is the combination of line creating a shape in a garment. So you have clothing styles, an A line skirt a straight skirt, trousers versus slacks, the styling is different. The styling is created with a line and shape.
S: So we use styling perhaps more casually than we should?
J: Oh no, because they are all culture, culturally, but no, it’s still you’ve got one word with several different meanings. A person has a particular style. If they have one kind of a look, that can be considered their style, ok? So there’s “in style”, there’s style which is the style of the garment, there’s in style looking like everybody else and there is having style which is generally something unique to the individual. And the ones of the icons we hear all the time, Fred Astaire, Audrey Hepburn, Princess Grace, and we can come more current now too and but now sadly it’s all celebrities of course. What are they trying to do? They’re trying to get media attention so they want to go as extreme- they want to shock everybody as extremely as they possibly can think of. So for them to be the icons now is really, really sad but that’s what kids are doing and of course Brittany was the quintessential , I didn’t say that right, but you know what I mean, Brittany with her low rider and
S: Can I say how glad I am that’s going away
J: Going maybe. Our young people haven’t got a clue where their waistline is, not a clue, yes, they’re trying to reverse that, you know, low rider, now we’re to empire again. What is crazy there, all of our maternity clothes are now - the gals who are pregnant are wearing the tight t shirts like the teens and the teens are wearing the maternity tops. Just exactly with the empire, loose empire line, just exactly.
And why did they do that sort of thing? Because mom isn’t. Whatever mom isn’t wearing, mom and dad, that’s what they’re, the next generations, gonna want to wear.
S: So what do you say to people who say, women wore dresses down to the ground and there were people, when the hemlines went up, who went, “oh!”
J: Well, clear to the floor, that’s an extreme isn’t it?
S: Well but it wasn’t, it was the norm, it was the norm; when the dresses came up, there were people who said that was wrong
J: They had totally accepted the extreme, so then it comes up and it’s “oh!”, yes?.
S: But today, let’s fast forward to today, what do you say to people who say you are trying to maintain something and not moving?
J: They just haven’t seen my visual demonstrations because if they are actually ever around me they would see this incredible wide range of things we do, never a problem in that sense. Not trying to keep anybody in a slot or anything like that, uh uh. And that’s where the style scale works so well because it allows the mix of levels 4 and 1 and we show them how to do it; we’ve gotta have a concept and a strategy people can work with. Part of the problem with fashion right now, in dress and image, is people have forgotten how to do it; we’ve got three generations who no longer have a clue how to dress; they weren’t taught in the home, they’re not taught in the schools anymore and GenX and GenY and so on; so they’ve forgotten, they’ve never learned and they don’t know how to dress, but nobody’s about to admit it so you have to put it down to make them feel better, right? And that’s what they’ve done. There is greater fear now about fashion than there’s ever been historically, ever.
S: And who’s afraid?
J: The people who don’t know how to dress. They’re totally fearful. You know it used to be the number one fear, supposedly, the world’s number one fear was public speaking; it’s not anymore, everyone wants their 5 or 15 minutes on Oprah.
S: on the internet or
J: and on the reality shows, so it’s not that anymore. The number one fear is fashion. And I’m here to say, hey, it’s time to take out the fear, put back in the fun. Fashion used to be fun. It was something that added variety to life, it was fun to get up and say, you know, who do I want to be today, who am I, where am I going? What do I want to communicate? It was fun. And we wore a variety. It’s no longer fun - In jeans and t shirts every day of your life or polo and khakis every day of your life. We’ve lost the fun, there’s no creativity, there’s no artistry anymore. There’s little harmony, very little beauty; we’re losing all of those things.
S: And so what do you think your role is in keeping that from happening?
J: Well I don’t know that I can keep it from happening. We may already be too far. I predicted exactly where we are right now,including the economic meltdown; ’85 I wrote a piece called “America’s going down the tube in a tshirt” and I said this and this and this and this is where we’re headed, what’s gonna happen and guess what? We’re there; it’s already, yeah, the dot com bust, I predicted that; nobody could predict 9-11 but the minute it happened I said, now we’re going to go a little bit back to nicer dressing because the minute you have a scare, a threat, you go back into classic dressing because we made it through the last time and maybe that will help us get through it this time; we retreat; then we moved right out of that quick. And so we’re really into the deconstruction for so many people.
S: So where do you see the future?
J: The future, if I and others like me, can find a vehicle, a voice, to re-teach the points about, the elements of design, visual design in dress, to re-teach people visual design in dress, we could turn it around. But people say, it’s gonna swing, the pendulum will swing; not once you’ve lost the information. Once the information is gone, nobody pulls it back up because they don’t even know where to go. And that’s happening, we’re there now. So I will have to, before I die out, I’m going to have to find a vehicle, and I’m working on it, but I don’t know that my lifetime will allow me to do it, in which case, we may be the unisex dressing, jeans and tshirts and sweats for men and women from now on. That’s it. The suit which is a negative put down; people wearing suits, usually are government politicians kinds of people; uniform people and so on, police, all of that; they will continue to be the keepers of the flame, the fire, try to keep things right but they’re losing control. We are headed for anarchy. And all you have to do is look at dress and anarchy is what’s here.
S: Wow, ok, so we should be afraid?
J: Yeah, we absolutely should be. America’s just a little over 200 years (in) existence, right? If you get into history, great civilizations, after they passed about 200 years, they start to fall, and we’re right there and it’s happening. Very scary.
S: So you don’t work here alone?
J: No.
S: As we toured through here earlier, you spoke of others. So how many people work with you here?
J: I like that word “with”, I don’t like “for”; they work with me, we’re very much colleagues. It depends because we will have people come through our educational training and they will work with me for awhile and then often they move, especially here in Utah Valley where I live, because you’ve got all these universities, university students, and I may get someone who wants to go into this field; they’ll study with me, develop their skills and so on, but when one of the married couple graduates and they move away. So I’ve got wonderful people out in the field, different places; right now, here, we’re slower right now with having a lot of people here to work with me and that kills me, I would love to have more. I just am always looking for the bright star, the person who’s going to be able to take over and, I’ve gotten us to a certain place with information, concepts and strategies I’ve developed. Truths I’ve been able to work out; I don’t want it to die when I die and I teasingly say, I’m looking at the end of the runway. But I still run circles around virtually everybody else who works with me or for me, whatever; they all talk about that. But I’m looking for that bright star.
S: So do you have other people who work with you who teach your …
J: Yeah, concepts; It’s not just mine, classic, bonafide art and science of dress and image; the people who go through architecture, it’s the same thing; I’m teaching the same thing, just in reference to dress instead of a building, ok?
S: So you teach people not only to do it personally, to personally dress and develop their own image and style, but you also teach people how to teach others.
J: Yes and too, they think they want to do what I do and I teach and educational training in that; very intensive.
S: And both of those things are part of your…
J: Prior to consulting with individuals we’ll do group consulting, seminar workshop kinds of things; I do seminars for associations, business groups, government groups, you name it and then I write text books and trade books; in the field, we’ve done DVD, got a new book coming out, in fact, one of the books; this will blow your mind. I’m right now, we just turned in the manuscript to our New York publisher for a book I wrote with my colleagues in 1976, try that one. It’s still a best seller in the field, and they called us about a year and a half ago to do a new edition. We’re thrilled, thrilled out of our minds, that’s so exciting.
S: and how much did you have to change it, from 1976?
J: Oh the learning, the new learnings that we’ve come up with, the new strategies, is phenomenal. It’s going to be a magnificent book; it was the best in field before but now it’s utterly incredible; it’s the bible in the field of fitting and alteration; very technical; thousands of illustrations; and Kathy Adams here in my office, she has become literally the world’s finest computer illustrator for this pattern work, she’s wonderful.
S: And she works with you?
J: Yeah, with me, we’ve been together about almost 18 years now. There’s never a bad word between us. Wonderful. The people I work with are fantastic.
S: So did she come to you skilled or did she develop that?
J: She developed it; her family is highly skilled with computers; it was something she wanted to develop when she came; we were acquainted previously and then I heard her one day say, “she’s probably gonna have to get a job”; oh what kind?; oh probably in banking; what?; you can manage the books? And so I hired her to take over all my bookkeeping. And then office manager and then, and as we do, we want our employees or friends to progress in ways they want to progress and I asked her, now, you’ve been doing this and this and this and this with me for all this time now, how would you like to grow? And she said it was in her computer graphic skills and so on. I said, you bet. So the one woman who then was doing the computer graphic kind of work had moved to Nephi and so it wasn’t working out so well back and forth, you know. And so Kathy took over her position and then I hired somebody to take over what Kathy’d done. So I’d, this kind of rotation, we’ve done.
S: So you would say you have personal friendship with these women?
J: You bet, wonderful people.
S: And so currently, how many women are we talking about? You two and how many other women? In your organization now.
J: Well, I’ve got over a hundred who are affiliates around the country, who are active to differing degrees. Depending on their lifestyle, their stage of life, things like that, to different degrees. Right here in Utah Valley now, right now because most people have moved away, I don’t have anybody but in March, I do an educational training and we’ve got two Utah residents, two coming to the program and that’s exciting. And one of them’s mid age lifestyle and so she’s not gonna probably be moving away. I’m excited about that.
S: Maybe someone who could hold the torch for a little while.
J: Absolutely, that’s what I’m looking for
S: So let’s talk about fashion things as they pertain specifically to women in the workplace; and then I want to talk just a little bit about women in the home. In the workplace, what our biggest challenge is in terms of workplace dressing.
J: Two things, to look like we’ve got a brain and to have the clothing fit so it’s not distracting. So our body shape doesn’t distract people, attention of people, from our work. So those would be the two. Looking like we’ve got a brain, you know if someone says, “oh my gosh, he looks so sharp”, “she looks so sharp”, where did that come from. From the pointed collar, the pointed edge on a collar; that’s where that statement came. Oh my, he looks so sharp. It’s the pointed collar; wearing a collar.
S: Pressed?
J: Yes. No starch, no starch, I recommend we don’t use any starch, uh uh. Tends to be more uncomfortable and it’s not necessary. So ideally and when you use that word professional that you used earlier, working with the tailored elements of design, it’s straight lines, angular shapes
S: And those are more appropriate generally in a business setting?
J: In a business setting because they communicate; straight lines communicate alertness, sharpness, the diagonal line communicates action- gonna get it done. That kind of thing. And the collar look is excellent; it lifts the look, brings our face for better communication but for a woman also, if we have a full body area in that upper torso, the collar distracts attention from that body area; we want enough ease in the fit of the clothing
S: So that you don’t have the buttons pull
J: That’s right but it’s stress lines too; the buttons may or may not be pulled but there’s stress lines and they radiate right around the bust area. It’s like a red flag, it says look here, and these lines say this is the place, hello. It doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, it’s distracting. So straighter lines, more angles. That is not to say we can’t wear a t shirt but even then, don’t make it an underwear shirt, make it a little bit more of a scoop; we get a little dark-light contrast with the skin because of the clothing; it bespeaks something that isn’t underwear and then we can even have the third layer piece of clothing, have the collar on it; and so you’ve got lots of options there.
S: Now do you recommend the third layer? In a business setting?
J: Ideally, make your statement the beginning of the day; or if you’re giving a presentation, it’s easy to put it on the back of your chair if you’re too warm; if you just want a little more ease of movement, even then, and see this is where people are so wrong again, they assume business clothes have to be uncomfortable, physically uncomfortable. Nonsense. We’ve got softer fabrics now. And we get enough ease in there. We’ve also got a little bit of the elastic and so on, spandex in there, it’s easy to get comfort in dress now if it’s properly fitted. And an ease amount, that’s what we’re looking for; a little bit of ease around the upper arm, around the bust, around our middrift and so on those areas; then on down, of course, with our tummies and bellies and behinds, side thighs, those things; we’ve gotta have enough ease for the clothing to flow over that body area; that’s what’s key, the clothing can just ease over that area
S: But sometimes people say “I look like a tent”
J: No, we can show off that waist, we can have it darted, belted, lots of things and there’s where we were talking earlier; everybody can wear a belt, they just don’t know how, and if they layer it, then my teasing comment, you’ve got a 4 inch waist but they just need to be taught how; you see women used to know how to do it. And we lost that information now.
S: So where do we go to get that information?
J: By the way, chamber meeting, a week ago Friday, I put up a display; we get to do that quite often, I put up a display and I had a picture of a woman, straight on and she had side thighs I tell you that didn’t quit. Now I’ve got side thighs, you’re welcome to look at them, but she had side thighs that were twice the size of me; and she was wearing black pants in the before picture; and as people walked by, I had one man say, oh poor girl, with reference to these side thighs; but then the next, the after picture, I’ve got her in a duster, and it’s a duster vest and it’s fantastic and everybody says, oh, liposuction, wrong; strictly dressing her in a way that minimize those thighs. The fabric skimmed right past, there’s nothing wrong with a rectangular silhouette, straight hanging silhouette. And attention went into the middle, she looks slim, went up to the face, it was marvelous. But from poor girl with dominant attention to those side thighs to absolutely looking slim, totally confident, capable, credible, all of those good kinds of things.
S: So the duster means that it came down
J: It came (down), this third layer piece came to just above the calf. A duster’s meant to be there. A duster is just a long shirt or long vest, that’s all it is; it’s pretty ordinary but it has a sheik kind of a look; people, that’s not my word, that’s what people say, oh my gosh, look she’s so sheik. It’s a style of clothing but it communicates style; she’s doing something out of the ordinary, very special and it causes her to appear very slim, not obtuse, no distracting bulges on the body so attention goes into the middle; the color contrast at the opening and up to her face; and you know we’re straight on for either good communications in a social situation or a work situation, it works. So the two things there; ease and some straighter lines in the business world. Right now we’ve got so much fru fru, we’ve got girly clothes.
S: Too much distraction really
J: yeah, and cuteness and you used the word, cutesy, that’s my word too; the minute we look cutesy, people aren’t going to take us seriously; not in handling their money and handling their business and so on, doesn’t work.
S: So is it still a male world? The business world?
J: No. It is definitely not and we’ve got so many women owned businesses, uh uh, absolutely not. But it is a tailored world. We need to look like we mean business. We need to appear as though we know what to do, how to do, there I go again you see. And that’s the tailored look, the straighter lines
S: That we’re focused, we’re efficient, that we’re organized,
J: yep, draw attention in and up, yep;
S: Now what if you work at home?
J: Same thing
S: So you dress up if nobody can see you?
J: That’s right because it affects you first. Now here’s where I’m coming from, the way you appear, and I put it this way, the way you choose to present yourself; see you’re the one in charge, the way you choose to present yourself, affects the way you think. Here’s the universal affects of image: the way you think , the way you feel, the way you act and only then, the way others react or respond to you.
S: So the first person you impact with your dress is you?
J: That’s right
S: and you can’t escape from you
J: No you can’t; and you’re not looking at your clothes but even your peripheral vision will see the colors and those will influence you; you feel the fabric on your body, that will influence you; you either feel sharp or you feel dowdy; you feel confident or you feel down;
S: Sloppy or
J: That’s right; when we are in sloppy kinds of clothes, we shuffle; you start watching people, they slump and they shuffle; do you know women’s magazines have always had articles about posture; I have never seen our magazines about posture for men until recently because our men in their flip flops and their super sloppy clothes are shuffling around, slopping around. And all of a sudden, we’re getting posture articles for men. You know there’s a logic; everthing that’s going on, there is a logic, I promise.
S: interesting – so if I wanted to take my business to the next level; if I wanted to be seen as more credible at what I do, what kind of impact can I expect from putting focus on the appearance of myself and my employees?
J: You know, everybody uses this language, take yourself to the next level; no one defines the level, what the next level is; everybody uses it loosely, we need to define where it is we want to go, what we want to do, we need to make our dress and image part of our business plan.
S: And we should dress ahead, maybe, of where we are?
J: That’s very possible if you’re aiming someplace else, yeah, definitely. But you’ve got to be careful; some of the things that are out there, they’ll say you gotta dress like your boss – wrong. Maybe your boss is dressing like a slob, you don’t want to go there. And you don’t have to go way above, I mean, a leather jacket, a suede jacket, terrific in the workplace. Straighter lines, it’s got a nice body, a firmness to itself; but it has a relaxed texture to it, you with me? And it works. So you’ve got options; boiled wool, wonderful fabric; zipper down the front, doesn’t have to be a double breasted jacket. You’ve got all these options; if you want and using that word level, that’s what I use with the style scale; level four, that matched suit is the dress code; the cue, the clue, the symbol of level 4, tailored dress, most authoritative, is a matched suit. But I showed today, in my seminar on campus, a denim suit, but it was kind of a yellowy tan color; it was a safari jacket style and a flared skirt, flared lower at the bottom, the way the trend has been; fantastic suit, level 4; but it’s way down on level 4. I’ll dress down, we go to level 3. Softly tailored – we recognize it by a jacket; now today, in your picture, that’d be good, today, you’re wearing this fun apple green jacket contrasted with the white shirt. Both of them contrasting with the reddish tint to your hair; it’s great. You stand out; you’re the focal point; people connect with you, communicate with you. I know right where you are and where you’re coming from. It works. That jacket, level 3; if in doubt, wear your jacket. It’ll move you up but it could be something as relaxed, low on level 3 as a jean jacket, we do it all the time. It’s a bomber style and we do it all the time; so there’s options; I do one seminar where I have maybe 30 different jackets on the rack, all go with the core pieces; and all I have to do is tell the audience, each person in the audience, to pick out your favorite jacket. They’re showing me their personal style. And then I can define it. And then they can do it again.
S: Do people, is it possible or even right, wrong – I’m not sure I asked cause I’m so, you know, ignorant of this world that you live in
J: I used the word ignorant but let’s say unknowledgable, ok
S: ok to mix things from different levels
J: Oh we do it, that’s the whole point, that’s where you arrive at personal style. So casual, tailored level 2, the cue or clue or symbol is a shirt with a collar and untailored level 1 is no collar.
S: I’ve seen blouses that are very nice fabric, very lovely tailor, no collar
J: That’s right, that’s right and it’s a higher quality fabric and construction; your dress code can embody
S: So do they stay in the number one just because they’re collarless
J: The top is level 1 but it’s high on level 1 because it’s a finer fabric, more refined fabric and that’s the word, refined; more refined fabric and perfect construction, outstanding quality in the construction; now, put that jewel neck blouse, under a crepe, a wool crepe and polyester crepe, a silk crepe suit jacket, ok?
S: With a matching skirt or pants
J: That’s right, now you’ve got your level 1 top with a level 4 jacket, that’s exactly right, your level four suit, that’s exactly right. Yep. That’s how you do it. We could take that level 4 suit and put a shawl collar on it instead of a notched lapel; put a shawl that’s rounded lines, you see, we softened the look. That’ll be lower on level 4 than the woman or the man in a notched collared suit
S: Ok we talked a lot about clothes; what about accessories?
J: OK there’s going to be the same level 4, level 3, level 2, level 1 in accessories also. That closed toe, heeled pump, a woman’s pump, is going to give greater visibility and therefore, visual authority. Flip flops don’t cut it and they’re noisy and distracting; so again, that word distracting.
S: How about just an open toed shoe?
J: Open toed, again, how much? Is it a peek toe? Which is about the size of your finger tip, no big deal, wear it. It’s when we start seeing the colors of the nails or uncut nails or dirty toenails, that’s when we’re in trouble. Cracked heels, that’s why; wear the closed heeled shoe. We’ve got people who are sick to death of seeing everybody’s cracked dirty heels in their flip flops; of course, the posture goes down, they don’t look like they can stand up straight, got trouble
S: What about hosiery?
J: Hosiery, oh that’s it, now you hit a beaut. That one’s controversial.
S: It’s a sticky topic, isn’t it?
J: We’ve gotten lazy in virtually all areas of dress, we’ve gotten lazy. It takes another step to put on a stocking. It’s definitely going to tie in with the temperature outside where you live
S: So is it ever appropriate to skip the hosiery?
J: Absolutely and that’s where I’m headed. It’s going to depend on how long the skirt is, what the weight of the fabric is, the shape of your leg, the condition of your leg; we’ve got women 50, 60 and 70 going without stockings. I was at a fashion show just last week, literally a fashion show, and they were older models and this gal was there with no stockings. I happened, she came around the L shape there, I happened to look at her legs; it was a disaster and she was out there with no stockings; she so needed the stockings on to soften the look of the legs, the mottling, the spotting, the varicose veins and all of this and that; she so needed a stocking. You say when can we go without them, or ask that, it’s if we’re going to wear a longer skirt. If you want to go without stockings, wear a longer skirt.
S: Is at your knee and above, put on your stockings?
J: That’s right, put on your stockings.
S: No matter how beautiful your legs are?
J: That’s right, it’s just so important. There was a gal on the cover of a fashion magazine and they had her in a great looking suit and she was squatted down so from the front of the magazine, you got her calf, the calf of her shin, her leg, her shin, thank you. And what you saw, she was Asian with very dark hair, what you saw was all those hair follicles; black hair follicles. Not that neat. I swear our young women have prettier legs than we ever had; I don’t know why, they look smoother, I agree, they look smoother, they look nicer. And very youthful and that beautiful, smooth kind of a look; a skirt to the knee, just an inch under the knee, I can handle it too. But so many times where the leg, even, is eye level, and that’s when not. Now clothing sets, this is an important point, clothing sets the parameters of social expectations. Ok. You put on that third layer, it doesn’t make you look fat, but it is somewhat larger, it draws more attention to you and communicates more visual authority, that layer; stockings, that was a protective layer, it was a modesty layer; that sheer stocking over your leg says “hands off”. We take off that stocking and I’ve had the men tell me and I had one man literally, very bold, ran his hand straight up my leg and he told me “that’s my territory”. Now that’s the arrogance we’re dealing with. The gals have not grown up with them; their mothers or grandmothers wear them, therefore they refuse to wear them. So we’re right back to the rebellion thing. That’s why it’s happened. On purpose
S: Men don’t have this stocking challenge.
J: Oh hey, do they, haven’t you read the latest there? They’re wearing tights. Men in tights? They’re wearing a full tight all the way up their leg. Gals know, you do that, pants over tights; they pull on each other, right? Miserable.
S: Why do they do it?
J: Because it’s weird, because it’s different; it’s a bit shocking. Anything for attention, that’s what it is. Totally for attention
S: I can’t imagine that I would put on hosiery that I didn’t have to wear
J: But the stocking thing; if we want to go without the stockings, very simply, wear a longer skirt, it’s easy. Not a problem.
S: Ok, so there are times when it’s ok to be without stockings
J: When you want to appear more refined, more refined, not drawing attention to your body; the stockings, that’s when you’re gonna wear them. And you get a nice sheer one.
S: When you’re dressed at level 4, would you most likely have on a stocking
J: Yes, that will be one of the characteristics; absolutely; you’ve got the straight lines, angular shapes, darker, duller colors, strong dark/light contrast, firm fabric, and geometric pattern. Then you would add more structure, generally the shoulder pad, see there’s power, visual shape there, I don’t want to use the power look. Visual shape there, solidity, a lift to the look, a little broader, stronger, inverted triangle it creates. And then we go to - and I looked at the clock as she did, that too, what are we doing by the way
S: We have to stop, it’s time for you to go, I could talk to you…
J: We could talk forever, but add to that listing , more structure, more refined quality, and you see, that’s what’s at level 4 and that’s where the stocking comes in. Hosiery is one of the characteristics, symbols of level 4. And the finest mens stockings is called hosiery also. You get down to level 1 and it’s no stockings, no hosiery, so again, it’s just the opposite. Once you learn the two opposites, it’s a piece of cake, and you do in fact, mix in between and that’s where you create your own personal style. You start doing it, understanding it, you’re having fun again. Fun with fashion. And then it’s filling not only these needs, physical, psychological, social, aesthetic needs
S: And can you not draw the reaction, the respect, the things that you want, what you say, to you by the way you dress? Instead of telling people
J: Absolutely. We’re talking about respect for the individual, respect for the self, respect for others, respect for the occasion. Those three. And that’s what we’ve lost.
S: So in 30 seconds, do you have any hobbies outside of fashion?
J: Oh yeah, food. I love to cook, love to eat
S: What’s your favorite down time thing, if you had an hour
J: Theatre; I just got my tickets for Madame Butterfly, the ballet; I’ve never seen a ballet of Madame Butterfly, it’s new; my husband and I love theatre, be it ballet, any kind of dance, any kind of dance, in the theatre
S: So your first passion is still theatre
J: I love it , and again it’s that expression, that expressive art form
S: And when you watch theatre, can you relax and enjoy it, or do you watch the costuming?
J: If they’re doing a good job, no you get totally into it; you are totally absorbed by the, what they’re creating
S: and so if they’ve not done a good job, then it’s a distraction to you?
J: I might, oh my gosh, they should have done this with the shoulder; they should have done that with the hem, yeah, that can happen too. You know, people ask me, and if I can conclude on this, people ask me, don’t you get sick of looking at people? We don’t do that, we tend to notice those that look very good and those that look very bad; now in people watching, that’s a good thing to do, and figure out why. When you’re looking sharp, we tend not to even, it’s just very nice, we tend not to notice at all. And I don’t, I forget all about it. We tend to notice the very good and the very bad
S: So if you want to be noticed, you have to be one of those I suppose?
J: yeah, well, to get noticed, to get attention. If we don’t have enough attention in our lives, people use clothing to get it, dress and grooming to get the attention. But it’s often negative attention. One of my bottom lines is, you’re never fully dressed without a smile. That’s the bottom line.
Sandy: Thank you, let’s just stop on that very positive, happy note.
“Here’s the universal affects of image- the way you think, the way you feel, the way you act- and only then, the way others react or respond to you”
“Our young people haven’t got a clue where their waistline is, not a clue”
“What does professional mean in dress standards that I use?; authentic, appropriate, attractive and affordable “
“The number one fear is fashion. And I’m here to say, hey, it’s time to take out the fear, put back in the fun. “
“We need to define where it is we want to go, what we want to do, we need to make our dress and image part of our business plan”
“you’re never fully dressed without a smile. That’s the bottom line”
Interview with Judith Rasband – January 28, 2009
for Women in Business magazine by Sandy Hatchett
Sandy: Judith, welcome to this interview process. Thanks for hosting me here in your lovely office. Let’s begin with some personal information about you. Kind of who you are
S: where are you from? How do you identify yourself?
J: OK, born and raised in Washington state, long ways from here - wet , rainy, grey skies; I came to Utah to study dance at the University of Utah; big career ideas; first semester, stripped the tendons away from my ligaments in my calf and that was the end of that. And so I had to go into something else but I loved Utah; because we get sunshine and I really appreciate that. So I stayed.
S: So did you meet your husband here?
J: Yes, his sister set us up on a blind date, so I tell everybody- don’t make a big deal, a bad deal, about blind dates; I married mine, and I know a lot of people who do.
S: My parents are a blind date couple
J: Yeah, she fixed me up; took me years to figure it out, why she picked me; there is a logic; I was a “spur” up there and I was the sophomore honorary; we wore a uniform with this big megaphone or something on it; looked like a cheerleader but it wasn’t; I guess they have spurs, that’s what it was, spurs on it, and that was a service organization and they made me honorary and that uniform, we finally figured it out, that uniform communicated that I had a brain and I was organized, could get things done, and I was doing things, which she thought were things he would appreciate. It took me years to figure it out but I said; I didn’t know her, not well at all; how could she have picked me? And I decided the only thing that would have stood out would have been that uniform. And then it started to fall into place and make sense.
S: Ok; well, let’s talk for a second about your children, do you have children?
J: Yeah, four. Three birth children, one adopted from India.
S: Oh my.
J: One girl, three boys
S: So did you go to India?
J: No actually; par for the course, you know, when you’ve decided to adopt, lots of times you end up pregnant. Now we adopted an older child thinking we were too old to start over and I found I was pregnant and so I couldn’t go; that actually turned out to be a disaster because that little boy was stillborn. And I feel quite sure that Heavenly Father knew what I could and couldn’t handle. And that little boy, they told me was Downs Syndrome; when he was born, he looked fine to me, perfect, so I’ve always wondered, but if he had been and then with the problems we’ve had, I probably couldn’t have handled it. So I hope I get him someday.
S: He’s still yours.
J: That’s right
S: Ok so you were at the University. Quickly had to change course because you were going to dance, then you couldn’t -
J: Went into Home Economics education; I love the home arts, definitely high value there. And so I went into the home arts, home economics - should have been called home management and have a little more respect. I later specialized in the clothing area. That is a natural. All my high school years, I was the high school thespian; you know, school play, senior play all of that kind of stuff. And I learned early the communication factor in dress and grooming.
S: And that was just a natural interest?
J: Yeah, absolutely, one of the plays I was in I remember the name, Nuts in May, and the opening scene they’ve got me asleep in the bed and I get up - my hair then was clear down to my hips - and I got up and I do my hair in a wonderful French twist -and that was the most talked about thing- but it took me from very relaxed and homebody looking, to very professional as you go on into the play. But I was doing costumes and makeup and all that sort of thing for the character, just early on.
S: So at what point did you switch from theatre and costuming to what you do now?
J: Well, the dance, of course, went right along with that, musical comedy style and ballet - I lost that- it’s a natural, the creative arts; that’s what the home arts are and clothing, particularly fabrications, I mean, it’s in my fingers. The fabrics, the colors, the textures, I work with visual design and dress, so there they are, the elements of design: line, shape, color, texture, patterns.
S: So is that something that a person can get a degree in?
J: Yes
S: Is your degree in …?
J: My first degree is in home economics education, which now is called family and consumer science in a lot of places. They’ve tried to make it more, get more respect for the field, which people still do not. Not even in Utah; there’s very little value for the woman working in the home. But, get me back to where I was. Yes, a degree. Home economics education, which involves the nutrition, child development, rearing, psychology, sociology, anthropology & anatomy; all these things I use now constantly. The time management, money management - all of that ties in with dress. The psych ,values ,communication- all that sort of thing. So it was a natural to then focus on the clothing with colors, fabrics; I love that. And I don’t even design, really, I’m not a good fashion designer; I prefer the classics with a fashion forward creative edge to it; I do wonderful things; pulling the things together, that’s what I love.
S: So do you sew?
J: Yeah, oh yeah, tailor, all of that. My first job was teaching at University of Utah and I taught tailoring and visual design in dress. That was my first job. Then I taught junior high, high school, adult ed in Granite District in Salt Lake City. And then we went to graduate school in Princeton, New Jersey and that was a wonderful experience in cultural differences and the application to dress. We went from there as visiting professors down to Louisiana State University and again, totally different kind of a culture and wonderful experience and dress related; l the physical needs of dress, as you were in that terrible humidity there, which I still would say is terrible, miserable.
S: I’m from the Midwest, I understand.
J: Oh, you know what I’m talking about. When we moved back to New Jersey, I grew up in Washington, so I thought I knew what humidity was, wrong; humidity I got in the Midwest and New Jersey and then double barreled in Louisiana. So, physical needs became very paramount there. I started graduate school there in textiles, discovered that wasn’t for me. The machines for making things, that just isn’t where I am ; I’m definitely in the aesthetic or artistic aspect, the social psychological aspect, so that’s what I then did my next degree in; within the artistic, social psychological aspect of dress.
S: And where was
J: That was at BYU because by then my husband was back here on faculty as a physicist.
S: So is he retired from BYU?
J: Just now, uh huh, just now. Yeah. So I - within just a few months- they called and wanted me to come teach at BYU and I taught there for 12 years.
S: Oh, ok, but you’re not teaching there now
J: Because they lost the department
S: So that was a long time ago then
J: Long time, yep, long time ago
S: Ok so tell me; so is that what made you start your current business concept?
J: Well, the business end of it started when people, parents, started calling me and saying you know, you did this for my child, my daughter and so on, in your class; would you come and do it for me? And that’s how the private consulting got going. Not that I hadn’t done it in New Jersey and so on before that and taught private classes and such. But that’s one of the things I really started to hear and then the Daily Herald called me and wanted me to do a newspaper column and I loved that; I took flak for it but I loved it because (I was) getting the information to the people
J: My column came out here for years and then it went up to Salt Lake City and 16 papers in the west; and I was ten years with Deseret News; I loved it; only stopped because of my chemo; had to stop with my chemo.
S; And what year was that?
J: ’89; that year I know right off.
S: I suspected that you would know that
J: Everything is BC, before cancer; and after cancer.
S: I have some cancer survivors in my family so I understand, I understand that
S: So how do you, now in the position that you’re in, how do you reach out to women? I mean, I found you by seeing you on BYU television; so what do you do now to reach out to women?
J: The writing, I love the writing. We do retreats, but most of my work is by word of mouth; one woman to another, a man to his wife, a wife to her husband, a wife to the husband to the business owner and so on; seminars and public places and then the small group retreats, private consulting, they find me now, of course, more newly, on the internet. You know, we didn’t use to have that; in the phone book, it used to be the yellow pages they might find me and now it’s the internet
S: And you do consulting for men and women a lot.
J: You bet, absolutely, and children; families in crisis.
S: Really?
J: Yep
S: In crisis, as in?
J: Hating each other, conflicts, value conflicts of redress and appearance. You know, well the family where they’ve got a child who’s going off the deep end, extreme, in their dress and for a lot of people they’re gonna say “oh pick your battles, Judy”; it doesn’t matter, dress doesn’t matter; want to bet?; wrong. They get stuck in that phase, you know, people say it’s just a phase, well, guess what? Very often they get stuck in the phase.
S: And can you take that chance?
J: That’s right, you cannot take too many because of where it leads; how many have seen a 60 or 70 year old hippie?
S: I have
J: You know? They’re still stuck. And they’ve done very little in the way of self development or improvement. Done very little service for anybody else in the community, the world, or whatever, made very little contribution, just very self absorbed.
S: So how do you change the mind of a teenager?
J: That’s where the fun comes. Yeah, the psychology and working with it; oh it’s incredible and the scariest ones are the ones who their dress is going to take them down a road to drugs, alcohol and sex and so on; and we get it all the time.
S: And how would you describe that type of dress?
J: Well, the easiest, the obvious, is when they start dressing all black and chains
S: All “goth”?
J: Yeah, the “goth” look. That was definitely a timely look and we still get some of that. Right now, it’s deconstruction in dress. Where they take perfectly good dress and ruin it or they buy it already ruined at some high price
S: Where it’s torn and stained and the seams are on the outside
J: Yeah, see it’s not the traditional, it’s not the harmony, it’s not the classic look or even creative look; it’s totally deconstruction; take something that was nice and make it not nice; it’s a whole trend where what used to be nice isn’t anymore; it’s really sad.
S: And what do you say to kids when they say, well, that’s in style?
J: Well, then we have to find out where the style came from; and of course, in those cases, it’s hip hop designers who are trying to make the women, get the women to do extreme, some extreme aspect in dress; for example and I’m practically famous for this, but the manure pants. So you’ve got the dirt stain, dirty denim. Where did it come from? Hip hop designers, back east, who were aware of episodes in a new York city museum where the vandals spread fecal material over the pictures of Madonna and child, the Madonna and child. Oh hey, let’s see if we can get the girls to wear this on their clothes? So that’s where you get the brown stained denim. Now again, I’m practically famous for this one, it’s crazy, infamous, that’s a better word; the wrinkles at the crotch,
S: They call them whiskers?
J: Whiskers. You’ve got it and if you just think about it for a second or two, let’s see if we can get the girls to wear their pants looking as dirty as they can, which includes wrinkles at the crotch and we’re going to call them wrinkles. Attention goes to contrast, right smack to that crotch for casual sex. It’s exactly what it’s all about. Now it’s, I know what’s happening with some of the trends of that extreme sort and I can explain it to the young person and I have visuals, I have pictures
S: And what if the young person says, well, I’m not trying to get anybody to look at my crotch.
J: you may not be trying, but you can’t do anything about it because attention goes to contrast. That’s where their attention is going, regardless to whether you were intending or not. Now we’ve got a lot of people, they are intending. And that’s a key word that you just said right there and I will ask, what is your intent? And you gotta keep interviewing and interviewing to finally get them down to where they will tell the truth
S: And they say my intent is to be like my friends
J: That’s often what ‘s said, to fit in; but then we have to talk about - is it distracting?- and the key word is distracting. Is it distracting (from) the purpose of education in school, business leadership or worship, it doesn’t belong.
S: But what if they don’t value education, business leadership or worship?
J: That’s right; that’s what I’m dealing with; I’ve got to find something they do value; it’s around the block; it’s not easy; and my one line, it’s something else and I say “Hey, what I do is not rocket science; it’s harder. It’s harder.” You’re dealing with the psyche, you’re dealing with anatomy, and you know there are endless variables with both of those. And then we’re dealing with visual design where there are endless variables
S: and we become very emotional about our clothes
J: There you go. Anything to do with… It’s the most controversial topic, emotional controversial, second only to evolution.
S: So do you get feedback from people …
J: Oh you bet I do, I get the hate mail.
S: You can’t tell me what to wear?
J: Yeah, I get the hate mail; and it’s always nasty.
S: How do you feel about that?
J: It only reinforces what I’ve learned over the years. Because they’re always rude or crude, nasty; and the people who are nice to me, they look nice; look nice, feel nice, be nice, others are nicer to you.
S: So it doesn’t influence you in a negative way? Doesn’t hurt your feelings?
J: It could have years ago; I know it’s going to come with this because it is a personal and emotional subject and very close to home. Anything about dress is like, it’s a threat to them and I figured that out. I know that segment of the population is going to be mad at me and as long as I know that’s the possibility; no , it doesn’t hurt me at all because you know the rationale that they’re going to be using. Where I get hurt is if I don’t expect it. And that’ll happen once in awhile but not too often. Where I can get shot down is if there’s something that I haven’t thought of, that’s where, I’m always trying to figure it out before I go out there. Constant pondering -
S: But getting that feedback also gives you a place to focus your attention and figure that out?
J: Exactly. I got an interesting feedback; a fellow who at the end of the program regarding deconstruction, he said “get used to it babe; it’s post modern deconstruction” and the way he said it was very vile. He was trying to put me down and that one we get all the time; why are you so dressed up? You look terrific today, Sandy. They’re always going to say, why are you so dressed up? And they say it in such a way that it’s a put down to you to make you feel uncomfortable, out of place and to build them up. And it works. And our people right here in Utah have fallen for it, hook, line and sinker; it’s just amazing; you have to put - for the kids, going to school to look nice - you have to have something in their head to come out of their mouth. You know, “just say no”, you know, that kind of a thing. I tell them. When they’re saying, why don’t you wear this and this, “that’s not my style”. But you’ve gotta put it in their head to come out the mouth. And with the other, why are you so dressed up?, “well, it makes me feel terrific”. “Well, I’m worth it”. “Well, why are you so dressed down? “ Turn it around. One woman said, “this is my gift to you”. I got the biggest kick out of that. This was a gal from the south, just neat, a character from the word go, but fantastic, and she said that with every intent, genuine, wonderful, loving; “this is my gift to you”. In the workplace, “because I intend to keep my job”.
S: So dressing is way more than just picking things that look good together.
J: That’s right, absolutely. The soc/psych aspect is so, the world, but particularly Utah Valley, have enough scriptural acquaintance, and that’s all it is, no knowledge, acquaintance with the idea that dress is frivolous and vain; they’ve gone overboard that there should be no attention. I got a letter, oh my gosh, I saved it; it’s a marvelous letter, it’s so bad; the insights it gave me to this person who wrote me and tried to explain to me that we should give no thought to dress. Now this is, this is wrong.
S: IS that even possible?
J: No , not really, no, it’s an excuse. It’s an excuse. But people extrapolate, they take the idea that dress is vain and frivolous and therefore we should pay no attention to it.
S: Do you believe it’s possible to take that too far?
J: Oh yeah, absolutely. We’ve got people in Utah Valley that are not only ignorant but arrogant. We got men who take pride in not taking care of themselves.
S: But I mean is it possible that people could get so fixed on how they look?
J: Oh yes, that of course, either extreme, either extreme, gets us in trouble; you know extremes get us in trouble no matter what it is
S: Any topic
J: Yes, dress is interesting, dress and image because there is not one subject matter field out there that you can name that doesn’t have some relationship to dress. Not one.
S: OK, I’ll believe you
J: We could be here all day if we did that, but seriously, there is a relationship in every aspect of our lives, there is a clothing relationship in every one and most people don’t even think about it anymore.
S: We’re addressing women in business. So I’m a woman in business
J: And you’re looking terrific
S: Well, I’m trying to look appropriate for the setting that we’re in. Not every setting
J: Level three, you’ve got a jacket on; it’s coordinated but it’s not matched so there’s a relaxation there; it’s a fashion color, it’s brighter, it’s lively, which stimulates the conversation
S: But what if my job, if I’m a cake decorator, then this would be inappropriate
J: For that actual process of decorating a cake, you might get it onto that jacket and then you’re going to have to clean it more times than it should be and it’ll be worn out, you’ll waste your money, dadadada. But the need to pay attention to clothing is every bit as important; you want it durable, you’ve got to be able to clean it, get the dies out, things like that; because otherwise it becomes distracting to them. It’s got to be of a weight that’s going to be comfortable for the job that they’re doing; they’ve got to have shoes that are going to give the kind of support they need because most of the time they’re standing. So those are just a few things and probably in between doing the decorating maybe they’re managing the desk and taking orders
S: Waiting on customers
J: Yes, exactly; so there we need them to be able to focus on the face and what that person is communicating; they need to look knowledgeable, organized, efficient, effective; as this person places this order and they’ve got to appear that way also to set their price and have their price be accepted. And the styling they’re going to do on that cake, now see there, I’m using visuals to design a dress, the cake decorator’s using visuals to design a cake decoration, hello? The same thing. The gardener, all of them, same thing
S: And so the thing to do is if you’re dress matches your occupation, then you have the professional look without being a level three or four but you look completely professional
J: Ok now what does professional mean? You see every word has to be defined; what does professional mean in dress standards that I use? authentic, appropriate, attractive and affordable – authentic for the role; what they’re actually doing
S: Perhaps that’s the word I am using
J: Now appropriate, looking like you belong in that role; you know what to do, how to do it, how to get it done and they’re gonna get it done. So that calls for different things depending on the profession and that calls even for difference within the profession depending on what geographical area of the country we’re living in. With our clientele, all of this sort of thing has come into whatever that dress code is.
S: .. sometimes it seems like, as I go around as a consumer, that people don’t require much of their employees
J: Not anymore I know, why do you think everybody’s going out of business? Nobody knows how to do anything anymore.
S: But do you suppose the people avoid that because they don’t know what to require, are afraid to require, all of that?
J: Absolutely, definitely. Now there is no real dress code except the one that I created – the style scale, personal professional style scale, and that works, that gives you a visualization, dressing up and down means something, and we can define it in terms of the elements of design. What are those actual cues? You know everybody says or hears at some point, or reads at some point, “look out for the message you’re sending”. Or” watch out about the statement you’re sending”.
S: If you don’t know how to send a statement, it doesn’t matter what it is
J: That’s right, but what they really don’t know is they haven’t gotten a clue what’s doing the talking; and what’s doing the talking are the elements and principles of design, the lines, shapes, colors, textures and patterns. How they’re put together; the balance proportion scale, the rhythmic eye movements throughout the outfit leading to one dominant focal point and for business, leadership needs to be up around the face; social, it can be lower on the body. Relaxed or social, but for business leadership, it’s your face where you communicate and you’ve got to have the focus up there. And if we’ve got a hole in the $360 Levis, that’s distracting, attention goes away from the face; we get the character who in his arrogance who wears the white shirt, which there’s nothing sacred about that, by the way, but he wears the French cuff and he lets them all flop. He doesn’t put a cuff link and he lets them flop and he thinks he’s being cool but what does that really mean? Well, they think they’re being brave; they’re so brave they’ll do that and I’m not, we’re not, we’re not brave enough to wear our cuff link shirts without cufflinks. But what they don’t realize, it’s just totally distracting with things flapping around; they’re never going to accomplish a real goal; it’s not going to happen; they’re going to make a major statement of defiance but they’re not going to accomplish anything of value.
S: And so defiance, sort of works at odds with cooperation, progress
J: Absolutely, defiance and rebellion, and they’re intent with those sleeves flapping, their intent is to make a statement; I’m cool, my dad wore his shirts buttoned there at the cuff; I’m so brave, I choose not to; I refuse to do that. It’s a rebellion, defiance.
S: And people think though that rebellion is the beginning of progress and you would disagree with that
J: Oh yeah, absolutely. People think that dress is a safe way to rebel. What they’re really doing is saying they’re pretty stupid. What they’re really doing, the little gal I saw in the store yesterday, pushing the grocery cart, probably was a student, she’s there with a roommate and she’s (wearing) a t shirt and pink pajamas on. Yeah, the grocery store. And it’s just flannel and they’re fuller cut, you know, to be comfortable in bed, so these pants are made out of flannel. What. She thinks she’s cute. Not. And she’s actually looking pretty much heavier than she really was and she wasn’t trim and that’s alright too, depending on her values there and her health. But it becomes distracting, a little pattern in the pajama bottom and you see, in the grocery store that did not communicate she knew what she was doing where and so on. She thinks she’s really clever and what it really looks like is she doesn’t know how to dress. She hasn’t got a clue. She’s doing this because it’s a trend she’s following, she’s a follower. And so there’s probably little leadership ability, probably, and notice my word, probably, because I don’t really know, but what is she communicating?
S: You’ve observed her
J: Yeah, that’s right, the observation. And what’s really coming across is that there is little organization, efficiency, effectiveness; it’s not gonna happen; she’s more caught up in herself, very self absorbed; that’s what comes across because she’s choosing to wear her pajamas that she got out of bed in or to look like that and has come to the store. In that attire, the people are not going to accomplish what they could accomplish if they weren’t caught up in that sort of thing, which is what they are. We could talk all day
S: So they couldn’t, they certainly could purchase groceries in their pajamas but you’re talking about in the bigger picture of their lives that that kind of attitude that drives you to wear your pajamas to the grocery store will limit you in other areas.
J: yeah, exactly and she’s expressing a defiance. A substantial degree of defiance; thinks it’s cute, thinks its clever, thinks she’s brave because her roommate and others aren’t doing it; she’s the brave one. When, if I do the surveys, and I do, we do the surveys, and it’s gonna come down to dumb and stupid.
S: So when you survey people ?
J: I show them a picture and ask what it communicates. That’s all I say. They’ll ask me all sorts of questions, I give no answers, it’s up to you; your impression, your observation. What comes to mind; what’s your first descriptive thought
S: Do you notice if somebody is wearing pajamas, if they would describe that person differently than someone like you and I. I would look at that and I would probably say it looks stupid, but what if you’re a pajama wearer, would that person look at that and relate to that in a different way?
J: They also think they are cute and clever; we tend to attract, likes attract like; ok, we know that; and so they’re most comfortable with people who dress like themselves. That is just standard psychology there, that we’re more comfortable with people who are like us and so we seek that out.
S: So the adjective they would use would be much more positive.
J: Oh yes, absolutely. But if you really keep at them in an inquisitory kind of a way, you eventually get down to rock bottom and it’s an amazing experience when they get down there. I was with a college group and (asked) what does it mean to be in fashion? And somebody, without even thinking, she said, “.. fashionable, to be in style”, that was it; ; what does it mean to be in style? “fashionable”. What does that mean? “Edgy” What does that mean? ”Sexy” and it was out and then looking around. This was a board group.
S: Is there a difference to you between fashion and style?
J: Absolutely.
S: And what would that difference be?
J: Well, fashion and even there (are) different definitions of fashion. Fashion is the prevailing look of the times. And fashion is the mirror of history. And if you think about that, we’re living in a very scary time right now of rebellion, it’s a very scary time. Style, very simply is the combination of line creating a shape in a garment. So you have clothing styles, an A line skirt a straight skirt, trousers versus slacks, the styling is different. The styling is created with a line and shape.
S: So we use styling perhaps more casually than we should?
J: Oh no, because they are all culture, culturally, but no, it’s still you’ve got one word with several different meanings. A person has a particular style. If they have one kind of a look, that can be considered their style, ok? So there’s “in style”, there’s style which is the style of the garment, there’s in style looking like everybody else and there is having style which is generally something unique to the individual. And the ones of the icons we hear all the time, Fred Astaire, Audrey Hepburn, Princess Grace, and we can come more current now too and but now sadly it’s all celebrities of course. What are they trying to do? They’re trying to get media attention so they want to go as extreme- they want to shock everybody as extremely as they possibly can think of. So for them to be the icons now is really, really sad but that’s what kids are doing and of course Brittany was the quintessential , I didn’t say that right, but you know what I mean, Brittany with her low rider and
S: Can I say how glad I am that’s going away
J: Going maybe. Our young people haven’t got a clue where their waistline is, not a clue, yes, they’re trying to reverse that, you know, low rider, now we’re to empire again. What is crazy there, all of our maternity clothes are now - the gals who are pregnant are wearing the tight t shirts like the teens and the teens are wearing the maternity tops. Just exactly with the empire, loose empire line, just exactly.
And why did they do that sort of thing? Because mom isn’t. Whatever mom isn’t wearing, mom and dad, that’s what they’re, the next generations, gonna want to wear.
S: So what do you say to people who say, women wore dresses down to the ground and there were people, when the hemlines went up, who went, “oh!”
J: Well, clear to the floor, that’s an extreme isn’t it?
S: Well but it wasn’t, it was the norm, it was the norm; when the dresses came up, there were people who said that was wrong
J: They had totally accepted the extreme, so then it comes up and it’s “oh!”, yes?.
S: But today, let’s fast forward to today, what do you say to people who say you are trying to maintain something and not moving?
J: They just haven’t seen my visual demonstrations because if they are actually ever around me they would see this incredible wide range of things we do, never a problem in that sense. Not trying to keep anybody in a slot or anything like that, uh uh. And that’s where the style scale works so well because it allows the mix of levels 4 and 1 and we show them how to do it; we’ve gotta have a concept and a strategy people can work with. Part of the problem with fashion right now, in dress and image, is people have forgotten how to do it; we’ve got three generations who no longer have a clue how to dress; they weren’t taught in the home, they’re not taught in the schools anymore and GenX and GenY and so on; so they’ve forgotten, they’ve never learned and they don’t know how to dress, but nobody’s about to admit it so you have to put it down to make them feel better, right? And that’s what they’ve done. There is greater fear now about fashion than there’s ever been historically, ever.
S: And who’s afraid?
J: The people who don’t know how to dress. They’re totally fearful. You know it used to be the number one fear, supposedly, the world’s number one fear was public speaking; it’s not anymore, everyone wants their 5 or 15 minutes on Oprah.
S: on the internet or
J: and on the reality shows, so it’s not that anymore. The number one fear is fashion. And I’m here to say, hey, it’s time to take out the fear, put back in the fun. Fashion used to be fun. It was something that added variety to life, it was fun to get up and say, you know, who do I want to be today, who am I, where am I going? What do I want to communicate? It was fun. And we wore a variety. It’s no longer fun - In jeans and t shirts every day of your life or polo and khakis every day of your life. We’ve lost the fun, there’s no creativity, there’s no artistry anymore. There’s little harmony, very little beauty; we’re losing all of those things.
S: And so what do you think your role is in keeping that from happening?
J: Well I don’t know that I can keep it from happening. We may already be too far. I predicted exactly where we are right now,including the economic meltdown; ’85 I wrote a piece called “America’s going down the tube in a tshirt” and I said this and this and this and this is where we’re headed, what’s gonna happen and guess what? We’re there; it’s already, yeah, the dot com bust, I predicted that; nobody could predict 9-11 but the minute it happened I said, now we’re going to go a little bit back to nicer dressing because the minute you have a scare, a threat, you go back into classic dressing because we made it through the last time and maybe that will help us get through it this time; we retreat; then we moved right out of that quick. And so we’re really into the deconstruction for so many people.
S: So where do you see the future?
J: The future, if I and others like me, can find a vehicle, a voice, to re-teach the points about, the elements of design, visual design in dress, to re-teach people visual design in dress, we could turn it around. But people say, it’s gonna swing, the pendulum will swing; not once you’ve lost the information. Once the information is gone, nobody pulls it back up because they don’t even know where to go. And that’s happening, we’re there now. So I will have to, before I die out, I’m going to have to find a vehicle, and I’m working on it, but I don’t know that my lifetime will allow me to do it, in which case, we may be the unisex dressing, jeans and tshirts and sweats for men and women from now on. That’s it. The suit which is a negative put down; people wearing suits, usually are government politicians kinds of people; uniform people and so on, police, all of that; they will continue to be the keepers of the flame, the fire, try to keep things right but they’re losing control. We are headed for anarchy. And all you have to do is look at dress and anarchy is what’s here.
S: Wow, ok, so we should be afraid?
J: Yeah, we absolutely should be. America’s just a little over 200 years (in) existence, right? If you get into history, great civilizations, after they passed about 200 years, they start to fall, and we’re right there and it’s happening. Very scary.
S: So you don’t work here alone?
J: No.
S: As we toured through here earlier, you spoke of others. So how many people work with you here?
J: I like that word “with”, I don’t like “for”; they work with me, we’re very much colleagues. It depends because we will have people come through our educational training and they will work with me for awhile and then often they move, especially here in Utah Valley where I live, because you’ve got all these universities, university students, and I may get someone who wants to go into this field; they’ll study with me, develop their skills and so on, but when one of the married couple graduates and they move away. So I’ve got wonderful people out in the field, different places; right now, here, we’re slower right now with having a lot of people here to work with me and that kills me, I would love to have more. I just am always looking for the bright star, the person who’s going to be able to take over and, I’ve gotten us to a certain place with information, concepts and strategies I’ve developed. Truths I’ve been able to work out; I don’t want it to die when I die and I teasingly say, I’m looking at the end of the runway. But I still run circles around virtually everybody else who works with me or for me, whatever; they all talk about that. But I’m looking for that bright star.
S: So do you have other people who work with you who teach your …
J: Yeah, concepts; It’s not just mine, classic, bonafide art and science of dress and image; the people who go through architecture, it’s the same thing; I’m teaching the same thing, just in reference to dress instead of a building, ok?
S: So you teach people not only to do it personally, to personally dress and develop their own image and style, but you also teach people how to teach others.
J: Yes and too, they think they want to do what I do and I teach and educational training in that; very intensive.
S: And both of those things are part of your…
J: Prior to consulting with individuals we’ll do group consulting, seminar workshop kinds of things; I do seminars for associations, business groups, government groups, you name it and then I write text books and trade books; in the field, we’ve done DVD, got a new book coming out, in fact, one of the books; this will blow your mind. I’m right now, we just turned in the manuscript to our New York publisher for a book I wrote with my colleagues in 1976, try that one. It’s still a best seller in the field, and they called us about a year and a half ago to do a new edition. We’re thrilled, thrilled out of our minds, that’s so exciting.
S: and how much did you have to change it, from 1976?
J: Oh the learning, the new learnings that we’ve come up with, the new strategies, is phenomenal. It’s going to be a magnificent book; it was the best in field before but now it’s utterly incredible; it’s the bible in the field of fitting and alteration; very technical; thousands of illustrations; and Kathy Adams here in my office, she has become literally the world’s finest computer illustrator for this pattern work, she’s wonderful.
S: And she works with you?
J: Yeah, with me, we’ve been together about almost 18 years now. There’s never a bad word between us. Wonderful. The people I work with are fantastic.
S: So did she come to you skilled or did she develop that?
J: She developed it; her family is highly skilled with computers; it was something she wanted to develop when she came; we were acquainted previously and then I heard her one day say, “she’s probably gonna have to get a job”; oh what kind?; oh probably in banking; what?; you can manage the books? And so I hired her to take over all my bookkeeping. And then office manager and then, and as we do, we want our employees or friends to progress in ways they want to progress and I asked her, now, you’ve been doing this and this and this and this with me for all this time now, how would you like to grow? And she said it was in her computer graphic skills and so on. I said, you bet. So the one woman who then was doing the computer graphic kind of work had moved to Nephi and so it wasn’t working out so well back and forth, you know. And so Kathy took over her position and then I hired somebody to take over what Kathy’d done. So I’d, this kind of rotation, we’ve done.
S: So you would say you have personal friendship with these women?
J: You bet, wonderful people.
S: And so currently, how many women are we talking about? You two and how many other women? In your organization now.
J: Well, I’ve got over a hundred who are affiliates around the country, who are active to differing degrees. Depending on their lifestyle, their stage of life, things like that, to different degrees. Right here in Utah Valley now, right now because most people have moved away, I don’t have anybody but in March, I do an educational training and we’ve got two Utah residents, two coming to the program and that’s exciting. And one of them’s mid age lifestyle and so she’s not gonna probably be moving away. I’m excited about that.
S: Maybe someone who could hold the torch for a little while.
J: Absolutely, that’s what I’m looking for
S: So let’s talk about fashion things as they pertain specifically to women in the workplace; and then I want to talk just a little bit about women in the home. In the workplace, what our biggest challenge is in terms of workplace dressing.
J: Two things, to look like we’ve got a brain and to have the clothing fit so it’s not distracting. So our body shape doesn’t distract people, attention of people, from our work. So those would be the two. Looking like we’ve got a brain, you know if someone says, “oh my gosh, he looks so sharp”, “she looks so sharp”, where did that come from. From the pointed collar, the pointed edge on a collar; that’s where that statement came. Oh my, he looks so sharp. It’s the pointed collar; wearing a collar.
S: Pressed?
J: Yes. No starch, no starch, I recommend we don’t use any starch, uh uh. Tends to be more uncomfortable and it’s not necessary. So ideally and when you use that word professional that you used earlier, working with the tailored elements of design, it’s straight lines, angular shapes
S: And those are more appropriate generally in a business setting?
J: In a business setting because they communicate; straight lines communicate alertness, sharpness, the diagonal line communicates action- gonna get it done. That kind of thing. And the collar look is excellent; it lifts the look, brings our face for better communication but for a woman also, if we have a full body area in that upper torso, the collar distracts attention from that body area; we want enough ease in the fit of the clothing
S: So that you don’t have the buttons pull
J: That’s right but it’s stress lines too; the buttons may or may not be pulled but there’s stress lines and they radiate right around the bust area. It’s like a red flag, it says look here, and these lines say this is the place, hello. It doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, it’s distracting. So straighter lines, more angles. That is not to say we can’t wear a t shirt but even then, don’t make it an underwear shirt, make it a little bit more of a scoop; we get a little dark-light contrast with the skin because of the clothing; it bespeaks something that isn’t underwear and then we can even have the third layer piece of clothing, have the collar on it; and so you’ve got lots of options there.
S: Now do you recommend the third layer? In a business setting?
J: Ideally, make your statement the beginning of the day; or if you’re giving a presentation, it’s easy to put it on the back of your chair if you’re too warm; if you just want a little more ease of movement, even then, and see this is where people are so wrong again, they assume business clothes have to be uncomfortable, physically uncomfortable. Nonsense. We’ve got softer fabrics now. And we get enough ease in there. We’ve also got a little bit of the elastic and so on, spandex in there, it’s easy to get comfort in dress now if it’s properly fitted. And an ease amount, that’s what we’re looking for; a little bit of ease around the upper arm, around the bust, around our middrift and so on those areas; then on down, of course, with our tummies and bellies and behinds, side thighs, those things; we’ve gotta have enough ease for the clothing to flow over that body area; that’s what’s key, the clothing can just ease over that area
S: But sometimes people say “I look like a tent”
J: No, we can show off that waist, we can have it darted, belted, lots of things and there’s where we were talking earlier; everybody can wear a belt, they just don’t know how, and if they layer it, then my teasing comment, you’ve got a 4 inch waist but they just need to be taught how; you see women used to know how to do it. And we lost that information now.
S: So where do we go to get that information?
J: By the way, chamber meeting, a week ago Friday, I put up a display; we get to do that quite often, I put up a display and I had a picture of a woman, straight on and she had side thighs I tell you that didn’t quit. Now I’ve got side thighs, you’re welcome to look at them, but she had side thighs that were twice the size of me; and she was wearing black pants in the before picture; and as people walked by, I had one man say, oh poor girl, with reference to these side thighs; but then the next, the after picture, I’ve got her in a duster, and it’s a duster vest and it’s fantastic and everybody says, oh, liposuction, wrong; strictly dressing her in a way that minimize those thighs. The fabric skimmed right past, there’s nothing wrong with a rectangular silhouette, straight hanging silhouette. And attention went into the middle, she looks slim, went up to the face, it was marvelous. But from poor girl with dominant attention to those side thighs to absolutely looking slim, totally confident, capable, credible, all of those good kinds of things.
S: So the duster means that it came down
J: It came (down), this third layer piece came to just above the calf. A duster’s meant to be there. A duster is just a long shirt or long vest, that’s all it is; it’s pretty ordinary but it has a sheik kind of a look; people, that’s not my word, that’s what people say, oh my gosh, look she’s so sheik. It’s a style of clothing but it communicates style; she’s doing something out of the ordinary, very special and it causes her to appear very slim, not obtuse, no distracting bulges on the body so attention goes into the middle; the color contrast at the opening and up to her face; and you know we’re straight on for either good communications in a social situation or a work situation, it works. So the two things there; ease and some straighter lines in the business world. Right now we’ve got so much fru fru, we’ve got girly clothes.
S: Too much distraction really
J: yeah, and cuteness and you used the word, cutesy, that’s my word too; the minute we look cutesy, people aren’t going to take us seriously; not in handling their money and handling their business and so on, doesn’t work.
S: So is it still a male world? The business world?
J: No. It is definitely not and we’ve got so many women owned businesses, uh uh, absolutely not. But it is a tailored world. We need to look like we mean business. We need to appear as though we know what to do, how to do, there I go again you see. And that’s the tailored look, the straighter lines
S: That we’re focused, we’re efficient, that we’re organized,
J: yep, draw attention in and up, yep;
S: Now what if you work at home?
J: Same thing
S: So you dress up if nobody can see you?
J: That’s right because it affects you first. Now here’s where I’m coming from, the way you appear, and I put it this way, the way you choose to present yourself; see you’re the one in charge, the way you choose to present yourself, affects the way you think. Here’s the universal affects of image: the way you think , the way you feel, the way you act and only then, the way others react or respond to you.
S: So the first person you impact with your dress is you?
J: That’s right
S: and you can’t escape from you
J: No you can’t; and you’re not looking at your clothes but even your peripheral vision will see the colors and those will influence you; you feel the fabric on your body, that will influence you; you either feel sharp or you feel dowdy; you feel confident or you feel down;
S: Sloppy or
J: That’s right; when we are in sloppy kinds of clothes, we shuffle; you start watching people, they slump and they shuffle; do you know women’s magazines have always had articles about posture; I have never seen our magazines about posture for men until recently because our men in their flip flops and their super sloppy clothes are shuffling around, slopping around. And all of a sudden, we’re getting posture articles for men. You know there’s a logic; everthing that’s going on, there is a logic, I promise.
S: interesting – so if I wanted to take my business to the next level; if I wanted to be seen as more credible at what I do, what kind of impact can I expect from putting focus on the appearance of myself and my employees?
J: You know, everybody uses this language, take yourself to the next level; no one defines the level, what the next level is; everybody uses it loosely, we need to define where it is we want to go, what we want to do, we need to make our dress and image part of our business plan.
S: And we should dress ahead, maybe, of where we are?
J: That’s very possible if you’re aiming someplace else, yeah, definitely. But you’ve got to be careful; some of the things that are out there, they’ll say you gotta dress like your boss – wrong. Maybe your boss is dressing like a slob, you don’t want to go there. And you don’t have to go way above, I mean, a leather jacket, a suede jacket, terrific in the workplace. Straighter lines, it’s got a nice body, a firmness to itself; but it has a relaxed texture to it, you with me? And it works. So you’ve got options; boiled wool, wonderful fabric; zipper down the front, doesn’t have to be a double breasted jacket. You’ve got all these options; if you want and using that word level, that’s what I use with the style scale; level four, that matched suit is the dress code; the cue, the clue, the symbol of level 4, tailored dress, most authoritative, is a matched suit. But I showed today, in my seminar on campus, a denim suit, but it was kind of a yellowy tan color; it was a safari jacket style and a flared skirt, flared lower at the bottom, the way the trend has been; fantastic suit, level 4; but it’s way down on level 4. I’ll dress down, we go to level 3. Softly tailored – we recognize it by a jacket; now today, in your picture, that’d be good, today, you’re wearing this fun apple green jacket contrasted with the white shirt. Both of them contrasting with the reddish tint to your hair; it’s great. You stand out; you’re the focal point; people connect with you, communicate with you. I know right where you are and where you’re coming from. It works. That jacket, level 3; if in doubt, wear your jacket. It’ll move you up but it could be something as relaxed, low on level 3 as a jean jacket, we do it all the time. It’s a bomber style and we do it all the time; so there’s options; I do one seminar where I have maybe 30 different jackets on the rack, all go with the core pieces; and all I have to do is tell the audience, each person in the audience, to pick out your favorite jacket. They’re showing me their personal style. And then I can define it. And then they can do it again.
S: Do people, is it possible or even right, wrong – I’m not sure I asked cause I’m so, you know, ignorant of this world that you live in
J: I used the word ignorant but let’s say unknowledgable, ok
S: ok to mix things from different levels
J: Oh we do it, that’s the whole point, that’s where you arrive at personal style. So casual, tailored level 2, the cue or clue or symbol is a shirt with a collar and untailored level 1 is no collar.
S: I’ve seen blouses that are very nice fabric, very lovely tailor, no collar
J: That’s right, that’s right and it’s a higher quality fabric and construction; your dress code can embody
S: So do they stay in the number one just because they’re collarless
J: The top is level 1 but it’s high on level 1 because it’s a finer fabric, more refined fabric and that’s the word, refined; more refined fabric and perfect construction, outstanding quality in the construction; now, put that jewel neck blouse, under a crepe, a wool crepe and polyester crepe, a silk crepe suit jacket, ok?
S: With a matching skirt or pants
J: That’s right, now you’ve got your level 1 top with a level 4 jacket, that’s exactly right, your level four suit, that’s exactly right. Yep. That’s how you do it. We could take that level 4 suit and put a shawl collar on it instead of a notched lapel; put a shawl that’s rounded lines, you see, we softened the look. That’ll be lower on level 4 than the woman or the man in a notched collared suit
S: Ok we talked a lot about clothes; what about accessories?
J: OK there’s going to be the same level 4, level 3, level 2, level 1 in accessories also. That closed toe, heeled pump, a woman’s pump, is going to give greater visibility and therefore, visual authority. Flip flops don’t cut it and they’re noisy and distracting; so again, that word distracting.
S: How about just an open toed shoe?
J: Open toed, again, how much? Is it a peek toe? Which is about the size of your finger tip, no big deal, wear it. It’s when we start seeing the colors of the nails or uncut nails or dirty toenails, that’s when we’re in trouble. Cracked heels, that’s why; wear the closed heeled shoe. We’ve got people who are sick to death of seeing everybody’s cracked dirty heels in their flip flops; of course, the posture goes down, they don’t look like they can stand up straight, got trouble
S: What about hosiery?
J: Hosiery, oh that’s it, now you hit a beaut. That one’s controversial.
S: It’s a sticky topic, isn’t it?
J: We’ve gotten lazy in virtually all areas of dress, we’ve gotten lazy. It takes another step to put on a stocking. It’s definitely going to tie in with the temperature outside where you live
S: So is it ever appropriate to skip the hosiery?
J: Absolutely and that’s where I’m headed. It’s going to depend on how long the skirt is, what the weight of the fabric is, the shape of your leg, the condition of your leg; we’ve got women 50, 60 and 70 going without stockings. I was at a fashion show just last week, literally a fashion show, and they were older models and this gal was there with no stockings. I happened, she came around the L shape there, I happened to look at her legs; it was a disaster and she was out there with no stockings; she so needed the stockings on to soften the look of the legs, the mottling, the spotting, the varicose veins and all of this and that; she so needed a stocking. You say when can we go without them, or ask that, it’s if we’re going to wear a longer skirt. If you want to go without stockings, wear a longer skirt.
S: Is at your knee and above, put on your stockings?
J: That’s right, put on your stockings.
S: No matter how beautiful your legs are?
J: That’s right, it’s just so important. There was a gal on the cover of a fashion magazine and they had her in a great looking suit and she was squatted down so from the front of the magazine, you got her calf, the calf of her shin, her leg, her shin, thank you. And what you saw, she was Asian with very dark hair, what you saw was all those hair follicles; black hair follicles. Not that neat. I swear our young women have prettier legs than we ever had; I don’t know why, they look smoother, I agree, they look smoother, they look nicer. And very youthful and that beautiful, smooth kind of a look; a skirt to the knee, just an inch under the knee, I can handle it too. But so many times where the leg, even, is eye level, and that’s when not. Now clothing sets, this is an important point, clothing sets the parameters of social expectations. Ok. You put on that third layer, it doesn’t make you look fat, but it is somewhat larger, it draws more attention to you and communicates more visual authority, that layer; stockings, that was a protective layer, it was a modesty layer; that sheer stocking over your leg says “hands off”. We take off that stocking and I’ve had the men tell me and I had one man literally, very bold, ran his hand straight up my leg and he told me “that’s my territory”. Now that’s the arrogance we’re dealing with. The gals have not grown up with them; their mothers or grandmothers wear them, therefore they refuse to wear them. So we’re right back to the rebellion thing. That’s why it’s happened. On purpose
S: Men don’t have this stocking challenge.
J: Oh hey, do they, haven’t you read the latest there? They’re wearing tights. Men in tights? They’re wearing a full tight all the way up their leg. Gals know, you do that, pants over tights; they pull on each other, right? Miserable.
S: Why do they do it?
J: Because it’s weird, because it’s different; it’s a bit shocking. Anything for attention, that’s what it is. Totally for attention
S: I can’t imagine that I would put on hosiery that I didn’t have to wear
J: But the stocking thing; if we want to go without the stockings, very simply, wear a longer skirt, it’s easy. Not a problem.
S: Ok, so there are times when it’s ok to be without stockings
J: When you want to appear more refined, more refined, not drawing attention to your body; the stockings, that’s when you’re gonna wear them. And you get a nice sheer one.
S: When you’re dressed at level 4, would you most likely have on a stocking
J: Yes, that will be one of the characteristics; absolutely; you’ve got the straight lines, angular shapes, darker, duller colors, strong dark/light contrast, firm fabric, and geometric pattern. Then you would add more structure, generally the shoulder pad, see there’s power, visual shape there, I don’t want to use the power look. Visual shape there, solidity, a lift to the look, a little broader, stronger, inverted triangle it creates. And then we go to - and I looked at the clock as she did, that too, what are we doing by the way
S: We have to stop, it’s time for you to go, I could talk to you…
J: We could talk forever, but add to that listing , more structure, more refined quality, and you see, that’s what’s at level 4 and that’s where the stocking comes in. Hosiery is one of the characteristics, symbols of level 4. And the finest mens stockings is called hosiery also. You get down to level 1 and it’s no stockings, no hosiery, so again, it’s just the opposite. Once you learn the two opposites, it’s a piece of cake, and you do in fact, mix in between and that’s where you create your own personal style. You start doing it, understanding it, you’re having fun again. Fun with fashion. And then it’s filling not only these needs, physical, psychological, social, aesthetic needs
S: And can you not draw the reaction, the respect, the things that you want, what you say, to you by the way you dress? Instead of telling people
J: Absolutely. We’re talking about respect for the individual, respect for the self, respect for others, respect for the occasion. Those three. And that’s what we’ve lost.
S: So in 30 seconds, do you have any hobbies outside of fashion?
J: Oh yeah, food. I love to cook, love to eat
S: What’s your favorite down time thing, if you had an hour
J: Theatre; I just got my tickets for Madame Butterfly, the ballet; I’ve never seen a ballet of Madame Butterfly, it’s new; my husband and I love theatre, be it ballet, any kind of dance, any kind of dance, in the theatre
S: So your first passion is still theatre
J: I love it , and again it’s that expression, that expressive art form
S: And when you watch theatre, can you relax and enjoy it, or do you watch the costuming?
J: If they’re doing a good job, no you get totally into it; you are totally absorbed by the, what they’re creating
S: and so if they’ve not done a good job, then it’s a distraction to you?
J: I might, oh my gosh, they should have done this with the shoulder; they should have done that with the hem, yeah, that can happen too. You know, people ask me, and if I can conclude on this, people ask me, don’t you get sick of looking at people? We don’t do that, we tend to notice those that look very good and those that look very bad; now in people watching, that’s a good thing to do, and figure out why. When you’re looking sharp, we tend not to even, it’s just very nice, we tend not to notice at all. And I don’t, I forget all about it. We tend to notice the very good and the very bad
S: So if you want to be noticed, you have to be one of those I suppose?
J: yeah, well, to get noticed, to get attention. If we don’t have enough attention in our lives, people use clothing to get it, dress and grooming to get the attention. But it’s often negative attention. One of my bottom lines is, you’re never fully dressed without a smile. That’s the bottom line.
Sandy: Thank you, let’s just stop on that very positive, happy note.
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